2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion | Page 234

Discussion in 'Politics & Diplomacy' started by MetroMan, Sep 2, 2016.

  1. Admiral Beez

    Admiral Beez Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    6,122
    Likes Received:
    820
    I’m not a fan of carbon taxes. The worst thing Canadians can do for the environment is reproduce. Tax IVF and anyone who breeds.
     

  2. MTown

    MTown Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,954
    Likes Received:
    696
    Location:
    Mimico
    Hey man, sure....you're the family guy, I've been single and celibate for 7 years: I'm in no danger of reproducing anything except some epic weekends of my youth.

    I dare say the worst thing humans can do for the environment is be willfully ignorant of their impact on it.
     
    Admiral Beez, W. K. Lis and PinkLucy like this.
  3. Jasmine18

    Jasmine18 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    61
    I am not against a carbon tax...

    I am against a tax that seems to be just another source of govt revenue for a govt that is known for irresponsible spending.

    Meaning any carbon tax should be revenue neutral.
     
  4. steveintoronto

    steveintoronto Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2016
    Messages:
    5,836
    Likes Received:
    2,021
    "Neutral" relative to what?
     
  5. BurlOak

    BurlOak Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    4,125
    Likes Received:
    662
    Interesting that a Tesla will get a luxery tax and a rebate at the same time.
     
    pman likes this.
  6. steveintoronto

    steveintoronto Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2016
    Messages:
    5,836
    Likes Received:
    2,021
    Fred Lambert
    - Mar. 10th 2018 6:39 am ET
    https://electrek.co/2018/03/10/tesla-loses-ontario-electric-car-incentive/
     
  7. Admiral Beez

    Admiral Beez Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    6,122
    Likes Received:
    820
    Without government welfare the Tesla business model collapses. That’s Musk’s revenue stream, not car sales, but subsidies. Once the cost of extracting, producing and disposing of the lithium batteries is accounted for I’d have to think Teslas and their ilk do not warrant an environmental subsidy.

    A good environmental subsidy is getting me out of my car entirely. I live in downtown east, and work near Hurontario and QEW. When I take public transit the cost each way, not including Toronto Bikeshare membership to get to Union Station, is $6.50 for GoTrain to Port Credit Stn, plus $0.80 for Mississauga Transit bus up Hurontario, for a daily total of $14.60 a day, x 250 working days per year = $3,650. Meanwhile my 2000 Honda is long paid for and is reliable, needing perhaps $1,000 for annual maintenance, $1,400 for insurance, and $30 a week for gas, with free parking in my driveway and covered parking at office. Total annual car cost perhaps $4,000 / 365 days * 250 working days = $2,740.

    That’s where a subsidy makes sense, get me out of my car by making it more attractive to take transit. My wife has the family car, so I would sell my car, and not buy another, neither lithium or petroleum powered. Now that’s environmental thinking.

    But I run the risk of an Mtown’esque thread jacking and inside baseball tangency, so I’ll say no more on this topic beyond conveying my support for greater transit subsidies or tax credits, and instead pull the tiller hard back on topic. The NDP plan is attractive to me, mostly because it helps those in need, reduces poverty and helps lower income moms return or enter the workforce, while mostly leaving me alone, as my income and purchases aren’t high enough to qualify for either the benefits or the higher levies to pay for those benefits. It’s the old tax the rich, help the poor, leave the middle alone strategy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018 at 8:36 AM
    BurlOak likes this.
  8. John_Dee

    John_Dee Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2013
    Messages:
    622
    Likes Received:
    260
    I keep hearing this, but I'm not exactly seeing it. If the current situation is indeed a mirror image of the Trump/Clinton Battle For the White House, it's a twisted, funhouse mirror image. Nothing is quite so cut and dried. (God knows that election certainly wasn't.) Hillary Clinton's team tried to sell Clinton's 'inevitability' as the reigning story of that campaign, which, it seems to me, is what Ford's supporters are trying to do with these comparisons...and I would warn them not to be so certain of this election's outcome themselves.

    The Democrats had some excuse for their arrogance and presumption: Trump was such a buffoon he was practically a cartoon character, and he was a Goddamn game show host besides, fundamentally unserious, obviously in it for Ego and nothing else, etc. But Clinton was pretty widely loathed herself...just as Ford is. And for good reason. As I've said earlier in this forum, there is still such a thing as a "lesser evil" position, and I think an anti-Ford vote would definitely qualify for that category. He's a mean, rotten, none-too-bright son-of-a-bitch who slithered into his current position after a sleazy palace coup against the former party leader (in which we still don't know what role he personally played) and who got less votes than his chief rival in said election. How confidence building. He has a checkered criminal background, in which he (and his pig of a brother) had all sorts of scummy figures lurking about. He demonstrably turned the city of Toronto into an international laughing stock and shitshow when he was "Co-Mayor," and we still don't know how much responsibility he had for the uglier episodes that took place during that period, especially the more violent, criminal incidents in which people were actually, you know, attacked in their homes, beaten up and/or killed. So far in this campaign, every time he's opened his greasy, fat mouth he's cemented his position as an ignorant know-nothing who just spouts lies and self-aggrandizing bullshit. And he's committed himself as against a rise in the minimum wage. What a Man of the People!

    Trump is an irresponsible demagogue, but give him his due: He did manage to turn himself into a brand name, which took a fair bit of cunning. Ford's attempts to do so have been crashing failures. He's a small-time grifter compared to Trump, a hick, and - even worse from a media standpoint - is as dull as dirt, apart from his political extremism. That he's clawed his way to the top in the provincial PC party has more to do with the current party "leadership's" cravenness and incompetence than anything else, IMO. So let's not count our chickens.
     
    Irishmonk, JGHali and Admiral Beez like this.
  9. steveintoronto

    steveintoronto Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2016
    Messages:
    5,836
    Likes Received:
    2,021
    It's getting closer all the time:

    BILL CURRY Globe and Mail
    PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER
    OTTAWA
    PUBLISHED APRIL 17, 2018 UPDATED 6 HOURS AGO
    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/pol...ight-of-how-political-parties-use-voter-data/
     
  10. TrickyRicky

    TrickyRicky Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2007
    Messages:
    2,059
    Likes Received:
    200
    Wynne’s latest release about fair pay for government contracts is yet another example of well meaning policy that expands government for the purpose of expanding government. So basically we will pay more for an expansion of government beaurocracy so that political insiders can get positions setting Kafka-esque rules that will increase the costs of all future government contracts the government enters into?
     
  11. steveintoronto

    steveintoronto Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2016
    Messages:
    5,836
    Likes Received:
    2,021
    Terms for government contracts have existed for generations. The one you should be most concerned about are ones demanding domestic content.

    Is this more to your liking Ricky?
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/wyn...y-american-criticized-by-opposition-1.3793330

    I'm no fan of Wynne's, but even less of a fan of the present knee-jerk reactionary so-called Cons. What would you have? That Wynne rollover and spread Ontario's legs to get defiled? Extensive negotiations and missions occurred long before it came to making a stand. And best the "present day reactionaries" research how real Conservative regimes have handled this in the past.

    When you're dealing with the likes of Trump, well....I'll spare myself of taking that point any further, it's wasted on knee-jerk reactionaries who hold him in esteem.

    Meanwhile:
    https://www.thestar.com/opinion/sta...t-be-complacent-on-policing-social-media.html

    Not that I'm drawing a crooked line to Ford's coronation in the OntCon camp.....

    If the OntCons had elected a leader with a sense of moral fortitude and quantifiable worth, things might be different when it comes to pointing out Wynne's failings. Coming from a complete loser, however, only counts for those who've already counted themselves out.
     
  12. JWBF

    JWBF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,632
    Likes Received:
    368
    Location:
    Scarborough - Eglinton & Danforth - Ward 38
    I wonder what would happen if "government welfare" was stopped to the petroleum industry?
     
  13. JWBF

    JWBF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,632
    Likes Received:
    368
    Location:
    Scarborough - Eglinton & Danforth - Ward 38
  14. PinkLucy

    PinkLucy Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    6,264
    Likes Received:
    1,896
  15. Admiral Beez

    Admiral Beez Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    6,122
    Likes Received:
    820
    I just wish she would have governed better. She could have fixed car insurance and hydro costs, addressed hospital wait times and crumbling infrastructure. She could have controlled deficits by sharpening the role of government in our lives and how it delivers services and how it spends, focused on private sector jobs, business success and growing prosperity, or being a Notley-like champion for her province, kicking ass to push Ontario's interests.

    Instead it's four+ years of grey porridge blah, and ever-expanding government and spending, hydro rates up, auto insurance up, coverage down, little transit (14+ years of Liberal rule and not a single subway station built south of Hwy 401), and shitty decisions everywhere. If he wins, it's her fault.

    And no, I'm not suggesting DoFo will handle any of the above better, but the people are angry, irrational and prepared to vote against their interest just to kick her out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018 at 5:28 PM
    steveintoronto and narduch like this.

Share This Page