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2018 Municipal Election: Toronto Council Races

How many non-incumbent winners will there be on council?


  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .
Any thoughts on Council's demographic composition?

Yeah, when I was growing up in Scarborough in the 90s I thought council was too white.

That was then, this is now. hahahahaaaaaaaa...oh, wait.

Nah, it's interesting, but I don't think it means anything in terms of competence. In fact, the demographic make-up of council is completely unrelated to competence. Also, Mammo is gone so that can only be a good thing for competence and he's a white male so for those of a certain ideological persuasion that's a double-bonus.
 
Overall I'd say Thug Ford's "Toronto council enema" has been a failure. Not only did all the left-wing, "downtown elite" councillors that he even called out by name get elected, but he even lost his lapdog Mammoliti.
 
Any thoughts on Council's demographic composition?

I think I'm counting 36% female, 64% male.

And 16% visible minority (err, hmmm, less than plurality?) LOL

I despise quotas and don't associate council's competence based on its make-up.

Still I think ideally a council should look vaguely like those it represents.

Seems there is still a hill to climb in that regard.
At the risk of getting stoned to death here... Who cares? There were qualified and brilliant candidates of every stripe and colour. And in their infinite wisdom, the electorate chose from that group whom they thought would do the best job for them. The new council contains many faces whose ancestors did not hail from the British Isles.

There is no win (for anyone) in this thinking. It is a quagmire and we do no service to the candidates who through their determination to make it, made it.
 
I don't think that matters, But the Toronto & York Labour Council shouldn't have made any endorsement in that ward, especially when Mary Fragedakis was the competition.
So it’s having an army of campaigners that makes a win? I find that hard to blog, but the evidence appears to be in. Very hard - from my POV - to explain why Mary Fragedakis and Fletcher were not more evenly matched.
 
Overall I'd say Thug Ford's "Toronto council enema" has been a failure. Not only did all the left-wing, "downtown elite" councillors that he even called out by name get elected, but he even lost his lapdog Mammoliti.


I do think even he be as dumb to think combining left-wing areas together would result in progressives losing to conservatives.
 
Overall I'd say Thug Ford's "Toronto council enema" has been a failure. Not only did all the left-wing, "downtown elite" councillors that he even called out by name get elected, but he even lost his lapdog Mammoliti.

Very much agreed. If he was hoping to get a council that was subservient to him, it didn't happen.
 
Very much agreed. If he was hoping to get a council that was subservient to him, it didn't happen.

I'm not sure they was his goal. It seemed more like a tree shake. Basically letting the lifers on council all know he's in change and now able to do many things for to City he couldn't when his brother was Mayor.

To me its a good balance for transit as the Province can deal unimpeded with subway capital and City can work towards local improvements which will be far less polarized.
 
At the risk of getting stoned to death here... Who cares? There were qualified and brilliant candidates of every stripe and colour. And in their infinite wisdom, the electorate chose from that group whom they thought would do the best job for them. The new council contains many faces whose ancestors did not hail from the British Isles.

There is no win (for anyone) in this thinking. It is a quagmire and we do no service to the candidates who through their determination to make it, made it.
The funny thing is the 4 minorities elected the only one that is even remotely centrist is Bailao and she gets hate for being a John Tory shill. So be careful what you wish for progressives.

There is another aspect of this that people don't really get is that one minority group isn't going to block vote for another minority group just for the sake of having a visible minority on council. I get that a Chinese person would prefer a Chinese representative but they don't necessarily want a Indian one for example, and may default to voting for a white person. The structural racism angle is really overplayed.
 
Any thoughts on Council's demographic composition?

I think I'm counting 36% female, 64% male.

And 16% visible minority (err, hmmm, less than plurality?) LOL

I despise quotas and don't associate council's competence based on its make-up.

Still I think ideally a council should look vaguely like those it represents.

Seems there is still a hill to climb in that regard.


If everyone voted according to their race, then maybe. But in order to achieve this ideal:
-Everyone should vote according to race
-You would probably have to abandon the ward system to eliminate regional issues and variables
-You would have to vote out incumbents for no apparent reason
-This perfectly balanced set of candidates should conveniently espouse political opinions and platforms that will get them elected
- There are no scandals involving any of this perfectly balanced set of candidates
- Said candidates are all respected and well known individuals in their community.
- No external event happens to violently shake the political landscape.
-No conflicts of ideology, religion, or lack thereof

In other words a perfectly ethnic/gender balanced democratically elected council is a utopian fantasy.

In any case, time is the best cure. As ethnic communities grow, grassroots political participation will grow from the ground up.

Maybe that's a bit harsh, as you said "Vaguely". But it does summarize some of the complexities in singling out one aspect of the current council as a bad thing. For an exercise, pick a couple of councillors that are over-represented, and figure out why they personally should not have been elected, who could have and should have been elected instead, and why their platform is better, and all this in the context of the needs and wants of the community that elected them.
 
Overall I'd say Thug Ford's "Toronto council enema" has been a failure. Not only did all the left-wing, "downtown elite" councillors that he even called out by name get elected, but he even lost his lapdog Mammoliti.
This point is really arguable. the current council is definitely not Ford friendly but Tory is ok with this result. While the , if you remember the 47 ward structure it was almost guaranteed to have a majority progressive council. So he definitely at least gave Tory a chance to get control of council. If the 47 ward race went ahead a conservative council was 100% out of the cards. I almost feel like doing a hypothetical council pool with 47 wards. I may do that tomorrow.

I do not think Ford himself did this for "rigging council" purposes, but the behind the scenes actors at the PC party definitely understood the council numbers when they allowed this to go ahead.
 
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If everyone voted according to their race, then maybe. But in order to achieve this ideal:
-Everyone should vote according to race
-You would probably have to abandon the ward system to eliminate regional issues and variables
-You would have to vote out incumbents for no apparent reason
-This perfectly balanced set of candidates should conveniently espouse political opinions and platforms that will get them elected
- There are no scandals involving any of this perfectly balanced set of candidates
- Said candidates are all respected and well known individuals in their community.
- No external event happens to violently shake the political landscape.
-No conflicts of ideology, religion, or lack thereof

In other words a perfectly ethnic/gender balanced democratically elected council is a utopian fantasy.

In any case, time is the best cure. As ethnic communities grow, grassroots political participation will grow from the ground up.

Maybe that's a bit harsh, as you said "Vaguely". But it does summarize some of the complexities in singling out one aspect of the current council as a bad thing. For an exercise, pick a couple of councillors that are over-represented, and figure out why they personally should not have been elected, who could have and should have been elected instead, and why their platform is better, and all this in the context of the needs and wants of the community that elected them.

I also said I abhor quotas.

I do wonder why people react to singular statements in isolation instead of context.

***

To be unabashedly clear, I don't think Toronto (or any other jurisdiction anywhere on earth need have a legislative body elected entirely on the lines of artificial demographic constructs (or real ones, arguably, such as sex).

Rather, i think a democracy, in representing a diversity of interests, benefits greatly from seeing that diversity reflected in its body politic. (that includes variability such as class/income, not merely 'identifiable groups' in conventional parlance. )

I also think, that if the system is otherwise fair, allowing for variation and complexity, one would expect such a body to be somewhat representative 'ish of its broader community.

That is not naive in anyway, nor Utopian.

I don't fail to recognize obstacles and normative variability.

But I also think 16% 'minority' in Toronto of 2018 is underweight and not by a little bit.

I always see it as a concern when large groups of citizens may feel they aren't represented in the government they are asked to financially support.

I also would add I vehemently disagree that it requires voters to consider 'race' in their voting. I certainly don't, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to.

I would expect people to vote their political leaning and their interest. But where given a representative slate of choices, I would expect something closer to demographic parity to be the outcome, by virtue of happenstance.
 
I also said I abhor quotas.

I do wonder why people react to singular statements in isolation instead of context.

***

To be unabashedly clear, I don't think Toronto (or any other jurisdiction anywhere on earth need have a legislative body elected entirely on the lines of artificial demographic constructs (or real ones, arguably, such as sex).

Rather, i think a democracy, in representing a diversity of interests, benefits greatly from seeing that diversity reflected in its body politic. (that includes variability such as class/income, not merely 'identifiable groups' in conventional parlance. )

I also think, that if the system is otherwise fair, allowing for variation and complexity, one would expect such a body to be somewhat representative 'ish of its broader community.

That is not naive in anyway, nor Utopian.

I don't fail to recognize obstacles and normative variability.

But I also think 16% 'minority' in Toronto of 2018 is underweight and not by a little bit.

I always see it as a concern when large groups of citizens may feel they aren't represented in the government they are asked to financially support.

I also would add I vehemently disagree that it requires voters to consider 'race' in their voting. I certainly don't, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to.

I would expect people to vote their political leaning and their interest. But where given a representative slate of choices, I would expect something closer to demographic parity to be the outcome, by virtue of happenstance.

Actually, you made me think of one thing unique to this particular election: Incumbents probably were of outsized importance as the electoral map was being squeezed by Ford. New candidates were probably crowded out this time around.

The effects of that may last through another two election cycles until people start to retire.
 
I wonder what job Mammo will get.

Crisanti's likelier. I can see Mammo being sorely disappointed--too much of a hot potato.

Remember that so far, Ford appointees have been cronies and hacks, but not trollish crazies a la Trump. (He probably knows his caucus wouldn't put up with that.)
 
This point is really arguable. the current council is definitely not Ford friendly but Tory is ok with this result. While the , if you remember the 47 ward structure it was almost guaranteed to have a majority progressive council. So he definitely at least gave Tory a chance to get control of council. If the 47 ward race went ahead a conservative council was 100% out of the cards. I almost feel like doing a hypothetical council pool with 47 wards. I may do that tomorrow.

Really? I don't think so. I think the balance would have been more or less the same.

Indeed, judging from how Tiffany Ford did presently, Mammo could have *survived*.
 

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