2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Well yea.. The reports clearly show that the LRT is the better option across the board. And I wouldn't say that I'm obsessed with SELRT being LRT; I'll change my position the moment I see evidence showing that the SELRT isn't the best option for the corridor. I did the same thing when I dropped support for the Line 2 extension.



I honestly wish it were that easy. It's highly questionable whether or not the currently allocated funds will be enough. Chances are that we'll have to look for more funding for the eastern extension of Line 2 if we want it built.

The reports favored subway 20 years ago. But you are right about the current subway extension. If SmartTrack is built it won't fly.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

While support for the subway is strongest in Scarborough, a majority of Torontonians living in Scarborough disapprove of the subway when the cost is factored in. They want a subway, but not at that cost.

Anyways I travel to and from Scarborough every day and still dont understand this ridiculous obsession that some people have with getting subways. Some of these people act as if its some great injustice.

Because all the other big boroughs have them. Pretty simple.

 

[ehlow]

Isn't it too early to determine LRTs will be much faster and more reliable than normal buses?
Using the 510 as an example, I find every time it is replaced by bus service due to track maintenance, the trip is almost always noticeably faster.

Is it too early? No, because speed is determined by certain factors which are known, like stop spacing, traffic light delays, dwell time.

At-grade LRT gets 22-25 km/h, suburban buses get 17 km/h.

It has nothing to do with whether the vehicle is on rails or rubber wheels, both rails or wheels can be fast or slow. A bus can be fast on a highway, or slow in downtown traffic. A train on rails can be fast in a high speed rail corridor, or slow on Queen St in traffic.

I like the Smart Track idea. Sure it's not perfect but IMO it's a damn good place to start. Plus, Liberty Village NEEDS reliable public transportation into the core. I think out of the plans proposed, the Smart Track proposal has the most chance of actually going somewhere. Considering Wynne got elected on a transportation/infrastructure agenda, it's my opinion that she would be totally into partnering with the city on a plan like this.

I agree, with the overall attitude of going ahead with improving the transit system even though plans aren't perfect. No plan is perfect, but that doesn't mean the transit line isn't good. Having said that, if it does happen then I hope they don't need to tunnel under Eglinton.

Because all the other big boroughs have them. Pretty simple.

This is Ford-ian over-simplification. Scarborough has almost an equal amount of subways as Etobicoke, but more importantly Metrolinx's job is not to equalize the # of subway stations across boroughs.

 

[nfitz]

My experience was based on weekend rides, so maybe it is different.

The last time I took the Spadina bus on the weekend, it took forever just to get from the bus terminal to Bloor Street, by the time it could turn left, and get to, and then through the intersection. And then it was getting stuck in traffic, particularly around Dundas. Compare to the streetcar that flies out of the station, and is at Sussex in no time.

I don't see how you'd think the bus works better than the streetcar in it's own ROW.

I can appreciate the fact buses may be more crowded and less comfortable. But why are they slower? Maybe due to the crowdedness and thus longer time to getting on/off?

I don't think they are slower. I think you are pulling it out of your imagination. Either that or you were doing it at 9 AM or something on a Sunday when there's no traffic.

 

[ehlow]

Everything that slows down a streetcar would slow down a bus. Traffic lights, stoping at each stop.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I agree, with the overall attitude of going ahead with improving the transit system even though plans aren't perfect. No plan is perfect, but that doesn't mean the transit line isn't good. Having said that, if it does happen then I hope they don't need to tunnel under Eglinton.

Personally I'm surprised that fiscally conservative John Tory would support a subway on Eglinton West. Such a project would be more wasteful than the Sheppard Subway and quite possibly the most wasteful infrastructure initiative since the incorporation of our municipality.

Within the City of Toronto, the underground portion of John Tory's SmartTrack plan runs roughly from Kipling to Mt. Dennis. Recall that in the Travel Demand Forecasting Report, the Eglinton Line is projected to move 3,500 persons per hour at Mt. Dennis. This number is reduced to a meager 900 persons as we move towards our Kipling Avenue. This is far below the 15,000 pphpd threshold the TTC recommends for subway construction.

To put these numbers in perspective, the Sheppard Subway, which is quite likely the most wasteful infrastructure project since the incorporation of our municipality, moves 4,000 pphpd. The Sheppard Subway would move more people than the John Tory endorsed Eglinton Subway. Tory's Eglinton Subway would also move less people than the King and Spadina streetcars. This is unacceptable given the availability of more cost effective alternatives, including the Eglinton Crosstown LRT, an Allen Road style surface HRT solution one of the nearby rail corridors.

 

[rbt]

Like your obsession with Sheppard East being LRT and nothing else.

Anyway, many of us in Scarborough are not in the mood to go back to the LRT plan as many (i.e. the Ontario Liberals) are committed to building the subway. Let's just get on with building it! Geez

You've got a minimum of 18 months worth of studies for the subway option yet; this includes finding out what the price will be (a thumb-suck estimate doesn't count).

Has city council voted to start an EA on it yet? If not, it'll be January before those 18 months begin.

Frankly, when the study starts I'd like it see a $3B subway option versus a $3B spent in other ways option, and it must include the impact of the now funded GO Rex service in the area.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I'm willing to bet that it will cost more than $3 Billion.

Anyways, that $3 Billiom could be used to pay for the Scarborough LRT & Malvern LRT OR it could be used to pay for a fully underground ECLRT that would be connected to he Scarborough LRT. Both are vastly superior to our wasteful Line 2 eextension plan.

Anyways after we spend millions of dollars on the EA, the public will be made aware that the $3 Billion price tag was uunrealistic. At that point Toronto City Council will either hike our taxes again, somehow find the extra money, or revert to the Scarborough LRT plan.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

I'm willing to bet that it will cost more than $3 Billion.

Anyways after we spend millions of dollars on the EA, the public will be made aware that the $3 Billion price tag was uunrealistic. At that point Toronto City Council will either hike our taxes again, somehow find the extra money, or revert to the Scarborough LRT plan.

Hiking taxes won't be so bad and if they don't want to do that, I am confident they will find extra money somewhere.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I'm willing to bet that it will cost more than $3 Billion.

Anyways, that $3 Billiom could be used to pay for the Scarborough LRT & Malvern LRT OR it could be used to pay for a fully underground ECLRT that would be connected to he Scarborough LRT. Both are vastly superior to our wasteful Line 2 eextension plan.

Anyways after we spend millions of dollars on the EA, the public will be made aware that the $3 Billion price tag was uunrealistic. At that point Toronto City Council will either hike our taxes again, somehow find the extra money, or revert to the Scarborough LRT plan.

This will cost closer to 5 billion because it will be underground. Connect the SRT to the Crosstown instead and pay half instead. I know what I would choose.

Hiking taxes won't be so bad and if they don't want to do that, I am confident they will find extra money somewhere.

From where??? All the money is spoken for. If Scarborough wanted subways, they should have spoken up in the mid 2000s. Everyone was silent during Transit City, and when Rob comes in everyone was against it. The LRT won't be the end of the world.

 

[GenerationW]

While support for the subway is strongest in Scarborough, a majority of Torontonians living in Scarborough disapprove of the subway when the cost is factored in. They want a subway, but not at that cost.

Anyways I travel to and from Scarborough every day and still dont understand this ridiculous obsession that some people have with getting subways. Some of these people act as if its some great injustice.

The most successful mode of rapid transit by far in Toronto's history appeals to a lot of Torontonians? Go figure!

Hiking taxes won't be so bad and if they don't want to do that, I am confident they will find extra money somewhere.

There could be some extra money in the $15 billion the province says it will commit to the GTA.

 

[johntauren]

Tory has dropped out of tonight's TTCRiders Transit Debate.
As far as I know, that means only Chow will be there.

With transit one of the big issues in this election...he better have a damn good reason for not being there.

 

[salsa]

TTC riders’ group ‘furious’ after John Tory drops out of debate

“It’s absolutely, absolutely disrespectful to the million transit riders who are squashed into TTC cars every single day. It is so disrespectful,” she said. “We organized this debate as volunteers so that people can get up to speed on the candidates’ transit platforms. He doesn’t even have the courtesy to turn up; he doesn’t even have the courtesy to give us advance notice.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/city_ha...ious_after_john_tory_drops_out_of_debate.html

 

[nfitz]

Tory has dropped out of tonight's TTCRiders Transit Debate.
As far as I know, that means only Chow will be there.

With transit one of the big issues in this election...he better have a damn good reason for not being there.

According to Twitter - https://twitter.com/dreahouston/status/511615221883215873 the reason John Tory dropped out was the campaign priorities have changed in this new phase.

With it being clear from several interviews, that John Tory doesn't really understand the details of his transit proposals (and likely couldn't even talk about the various parts of the city off the cuff), it seems likely that his advisors talked him into quitting, because they were afraid that Chow would decimate him on the issue.

Which makes it pretty clear in my mind, who one only candidate left standing for mayor, based on Transit. Though I look forward to hearing from new candidate Doug Ford. Wasn't his last proposal building a monorail down Front Street from Union to his Ferris wheel on the Portlands?

 

[TOareaFan]

Everything that slows down a streetcar would slow down a bus. Traffic lights, stoping at each stop.

Mostly but not 100%......the "buses over streetcars" crowd will always point out that if there is an accident or turning vehicle or whatever blocking the lane the streetcar is sharing with cars...they are blocked....whereas a bus can change lanes and go around the blockage.