2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

[sixrings]

I think its because 1/2 of it (the part that will be used the most) is underground

I don't agree. I think people will like Eglin ton because it will be comfortable and reliable as well. The new streetcars won't be underground but I am positive that people on all streetcar routes are counting down till their lines get the new streetcars.. and I'm sure there will be other routes like possibly dufferin begging for new streetcars. Sure the underground is going to play apart in Eglintons success but streetcars and lrt are seeing a revival everywhere and a lot of them are not underground.

 

[M II A II R II K]

There's also the part of having it transform the rest of the Eglinton into an actual streetscape as opposed to some random suburban arterial.

 

[ehlow]

I don't agree. I think people will like Eglin ton because it will be comfortable and reliable as well.

Also because it's fast (28km/h), much faster than existing buses (~17 km/h), and almost the same speed as the Bloor subway (30km/h).

The important thing is that they run subway-level frequencies (at least every 3-5 min peak, no worse than every 6-8 min off peak) once it opens.

 

[Rainforest]

I don't see a point in Dufferin streetcar if it runs in mixed traffic. Being stuck forever on a streetcar is no better than being stuck forever on a bus.

If we can afford to create a protected right-of-way on Dufferin; perhaps tunneling in the most critical section, and completely banning left turns in other sections; then it starts to make sense.

 

[kEiThZ]

I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment (even if I would like to use these opportunities for some of that urban development vision) but that is why LRTs are being proposed for certain transit corridors. LRTs need to stop being treated as some lower class form of transit and need to start being treated as a viable form of transit for certain routes, and a faster, more reliable and cozier alternative to buses.

I think the opening of Eglinton will do wonders for the image of LRTs in the city, and soon after we will be wanting to put LRTs everywhere.

Actually, it's not that there's anything wrong with LRTs. It's just a matter of priority to the average voter who just doesn't perceive enough benefit. This then makes the susceptible to the influence of those who would propose other solutions.

People here might not want to hear it, but the most popular transit plan would have been GO electrification and TTC integration.

Do that, then the public will support LRTs and even taxes to build infrastructure.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Do that, then the public will support LRTs and even taxes to build infrastructure.

You say that as if the public doesn't support LRT.

 

[ehlow]

People here might not want to hear it, but the most popular transit plan would have been GO electrification and TTC integration.

Most people here DO support GO electrification. "would have been"? It's called GO RER and it's a priority for Metrolinx now.

Based on the recent polls, the public does seem to support LRTs.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

If theres a single person here who doesn't support GO RER, can you please raise you hand? I can't recall anyone here saying they don't support the proposal.

 

[Rainforest]

You say that as if the public doesn't support LRT.

Indeed, the public does not actively support LRT.

Few are actively against LRT, and mostly it's when they see a chance of subway instead.

For the majority of voters, the attitude towards LRT is "well, build it if you feel it makes sense". They will not oppose it getting built, but will not complain to their Councillor or MPP if their LRT gets cancelled or deferred.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Few are actively against LRT, and mostly it's when they see a chance of subway instead.

Even when people can get a subway, people still support LRT. See Forum's Scarb Subway poll that still has a majority of Toronto supporting the LRT, even though the poll was [likely] designed to lead people to support the subway.

 

[Rainforest]

Even when people can get a subway, people still support LRT. See Forum's Scarb Subway poll that still has a majority of Toronto supporting the LRT, even though the poll was [likely] designed to lead people to support the subway.

First of all, I was talking about "active" support, when people demand their line being built and contact their elected officials to make it happen. A poll is a different situation, when people are asked to state their preferences, but are not required to take any further steps.

Secondly, the poll you mentioned is actually biased against the subway option. People were asked whether they prefer a 7-stop LRT or a 3-stop subway; naturally, they decided that 7 is better than 3, without bringing the rest of context.

A fair question would mention all major pros and cons of the LRT and subway option.

The LRT option:
- Is much cheaper
- Has 7 stops versus 3
- Has an important stop at Centennial college

The subway option:
- Eliminates the transfer at Kennedy
- Integrates much better with the Sheppard East transit route
- Has an important stop at the hospital
- Two of the stops lost by not building LRT (Ellesmere and Midland) are amongst the least used on the system
- There is a possibility of adding the 4-th, well used subway stop at Eglinton and Brimley, though it requires extra funds
- Does not take space in the Uxbridge Sub rail corridor, which may be useful for the expanded GO Rex service

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That same poll also was phrased in such a way that it suggested the HRT & LRT could cost the same. A fair question would have mentioned the cost of the two options.

 

[Palma]

I don't see a point in Dufferin streetcar if it runs in mixed traffic. Being stuck forever on a streetcar is no better than being stuck forever on a bus.

If we can afford to create a protected right-of-way on Dufferin; perhaps tunneling in the most critical section, and completely banning left turns in other sections; then it starts to make sense.

If the LRT or streetcar is to start at Bloor and go north, then tunneling will be from Bloor to Eglinton, but if it starts at say King, tunneling would start there and run to Eglinton. At that point there are people who again will state that it might as well be a subway. Dufferin is pretty narrow to have it run at street level, at least south of Eglinton. Unless the LRT is run along the side of the road but then there is the issue of parked cars as there are houses along that stretch,

 

[ehlow]

I don't see a point in Dufferin streetcar if it runs in mixed traffic. Being stuck forever on a streetcar is no better than being stuck forever on a bus.

If we can afford to create a protected right-of-way on Dufferin; perhaps tunneling in the most critical section, and completely banning left turns in other sections; then it starts to make sense.

I agree, if we're going to spend the money & effort installing new streetcar tracks & overhead wires, it should always be along an exclusive ROW separated from cars.

 

[sixrings]

I agree, if we're going to spend the money & effort installing new streetcar tracks & overhead wires, it should always be along an exclusive ROW separated from cars.

Put a no parking rule on dufferin. Make it row between eglinton and Wilson station. Mixed traffic everywhere else.