News   Jun 26, 2024
Hop, Skip, and a Jump
 114     0 
News   Jun 25, 2024
10 Storeys Proposed to Float Over Annex Heritage Building
 1.5K     1 
News   Jun 25, 2024
Madison's Alias Ascending with Height Bump into Downtown Skies
 1K     0 

2007 Ontario Election: John Tory throws the Election!

I think I am being careful in my statements. Too often I have heard defenders of religious schools describing public schools as "valueless" or "morally adrift" simply because the content was not being defined by a religious perspective (their religious perspective).

As for religion itself, I think it is something that an adult should choose for him or herself. I don't think children should be assigned a religion. They should know something about all religions, but should not be labelled as being part of one until they are old enough to decide for themselves.
 
I don't disagree with your perspective that people should choose their religion (if any) as adults, except to say that I think most parents raise their children in accordance with what they value. Some religious parents feel quite strongly that if they and their children's schools don't provide the religious values, the children simply won't acquire them. Let's face it, our habits over time very much shape who we are. I think open discussion, at home and at school, is crucial, but my guess is that people raise their children with the values and beliefs they think are important. It's hard, perhaps even unnatural, to try and hermetically seal children off from their family backgrounds. Yes, raise children to be their own persons, but we stand on the shoulders of those who came before us. Without communication and guidance, children are left to fend for themselves. Therefore parents raise their children as best they can. I do understand your concern that children should be exposed to a variety of ideas. I just think we provide a frame or context for our children's approach to new ideas, whether we do it consciously or not. I would rather do it consciously and try to provide a solid foundation. What that foundation is, I know is open to debate.
 
gibsonm said:
Some religious parents feel quite strongly that if they and their children's schools don't provide the religious values, the children simply won't acquire them.
Click to expand...

this doesn't say much in favor of religion.


Without communication and guidance, children are left to fend for themselves.
Click to expand...

sometimes that's not a bad thing. parents don't know everything and some parents aren't exactly great role models.
 
It's time to employ the forces of the market place and at the same time truly serve the goal of equal opportunity to an education by introducing a "voucher system." In the real business world, where one business is being bested, changes are soon made, changes that duplicate or reflect the successes of those businesses which are succeeding - a free market system, where it is allowed to operate, the "good" (as determined by impersonal voluntary choice) is duplicated and the "bad" (again, as determined by impersonal voluntary choice) is rooted out in a continual, day by day, month by month, year by year process. The market will yield up a fantastic variety from which parents can choose, at little cost, and with no costly and endless public debates as to what is "good" or what is "bad." Let the parents choose. It is really quite simple to implement, just introduce a voucher system and let all the schools, whether they are public or private compete for the vouchers.
 
like that idea put considering how pathetic the public school system is in the States in some areas i would avoid it.
 
billonlogan said:
It's time to employ the forces of the market place and at the same time truly serve the goal of equal opportunity to an education by introducing a "voucher system." In the real business world, where one business is being bested, changes are soon made, changes that duplicate or reflect the successes of those businesses which are succeeding - a free market system, where it is allowed to operate, the "good" (as determined by impersonal voluntary choice) is duplicated and the "bad" (again, as determined by impersonal voluntary choice) is rooted out in a continual, day by day, month by month, year by year process. The market will yield up a fantastic variety from which parents can choose, at little cost, and with no costly and endless public debates as to what is "good" or what is "bad." Let the parents choose. It is really quite simple to implement, just introduce a voucher system and let all the schools, whether they are public or private compete for the vouchers.
Click to expand...

So, exactly how would you rate or measure "good" or "bad" in such a context? And is is really so easy implement?
 
I've heard from some close to the campaign that Tory owes favours to the Jewish community, and this is why he's pursuing this course of action.

I think I'll be voting for McGuinty again. I can't stand the idea of my tax dollars supporting Madrasas or other religious schools, and I can't stand it that this has become the Conservatives primary campaign issue. What I'd really like to see is a leader who will follow Newfoundland and dismantle the Catholic board entirely, and bring forth one publicly funded school system for everyone.
 
gibsonm said:
Some religious parents feel quite strongly that if they and their children's schools don't provide the religious values, the children simply won't acquire them.
Click to expand...
Andrea will have to forgive me for speaking on religion as I generally try to avoid it, but I take my children to church to provide religious values, that's not the school's job.
 
Admiral Beez said:
I think I'll be voting for McGuinty again. I can't stand the idea of my tax dollars supporting Madrasas or other religious schools, and I can't stand it that this has become the Conservatives primary campaign issue. What I'd really like to see is a leader who will follow Newfoundland and dismantle the Catholic board entirely, and bring forth one publicly funded school system for everyone.
Click to expand...

The Green Party is the only party in Ontario which advocates this. This is why I'll be voting for them. BTW, I was raised Catholic.
 
From the Globe again:

Poll shows Tory support waning in Ontario's 905

Mr. Woolstencroft said support for the Conservatives could slip across the province because Mr. Tory's unpopular proposal to bring faith-based schools into the public system is "dead on arrival" for a large majority of Ontarians. The survey shows that 71 per cent of voters oppose it, including a majority of Conservatives.

More Ontarians said Mr. Tory would make a better premier than the incumbent, Mr. McGuinty. And Mr. Tory's popularity - at 37 per cent - exceeds support for his own party, which remains virtually unchanged at 34 per cent.

The survey of 850 Ontarians was conducted from Sept. 13 to Sept. 16, and is considered accurate to within 3.4 percentage points, 95 per cent of the time.

The policy to extend public funding to Jewish, Muslim and other religious schools is the "big factor" holding Mr. Tory back, Mr. Woolstencroft said. It's distracting him from the issues on which he wants to campaign, including Mr. McGuinty's broken promises, he added. "It's an emotional issue. It's a religious issue. It has all the ingredients of not working for him."

The campaign, now in its second week, is revolving around two issues: funding for religious schools and Mr. McGuinty's broken promises, including the $2.6-billion annual health premium he introduced in 2004 after campaigning the year before on a pledge not to raise taxes.

A majority want a change of government because they believe the Liberals have broken too many promises, the survey shows.

Three-quarters of those polled said the Liberals have broken too many promises. Moreover, this sentiment was shared by 66 per cent of Liberal voters who indicated they could switch their support to the Tories.
Click to expand...

The bolded text is evidence of the basic good sense people in this province have.

The rest of the article highlights what a mistake Tory has made. He should have simply focused on credibility and a centrist platform. That's what the mortgage paying, SUV driving middle class of this province wants. Sound management, low taxes, generous social programs and no destabilizing big ideas..
 
That sounds too much like a conspiracy to me.

I suspect that the Tory Tories simply thought they had a winning issue. Think about this at a basic level... what Tory thought he was doing was being the defender of fairness and inclusiveness. He thought he was lining McGuinity up to defend inequality (Defending religious inequality... that's basically racism! And we all know that if there's anything a Liberal would never do it's something that could be construed as racist!) or take the "opposite" position and call for eliminating public Catholic schools (which would kill their support). A classic attempt at a "wedge" issue.

It seems right that conservatives failed to realise the general public's great distaste for anything associated with increasing the role of religion in society.
 
Not to mention religious schooling also has implications for certain members of the minority groups, which are likely Liberal supporters. However, I think Tory and his camp miscalculated - for every minority parent who send their children to religious school, there are probably 10 more who doesn't; some could very well have left due to oppressive religious environments back in their home countries.

AoD
 
Tory's now throwing around another hot potato - he's publicly mulling OHIP-funded clinics for such things as hip replacement surgeries.

Now that's another issue that McGuinty can throw back at him, rightly or not.

Yeah, CDL, I don't buy any "payback" conspiracies with this, it could have made a good wedge issue - which conservatives seem to like after all. But Tory completely blew it by the time he spoke about creationism (yabba-dabba-doo!).
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top