GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[gabe]

GO Transit and TTC should follow the NY Path’s (and others) example and enact a ban on all electric bikes (and scooters) outside of designated mobility devices. That would kill several birds with one stone: reduce/eliminate the scourge of delivery app riders crowding the trains and platforms, reduce/eliminate the fire risk from dodgy batteries, and disrupt the delivery app business model of exploiting poor labour outside of the city (just in time for the international student visa collapse of available riders). For the rest of us, if you want to bring a conventional bicycle onto the GO Train, the strict rule of two bicycles per car must be enforced.

The PATH Train Just Quietly Banned E-Bikes at All Times - Streetsblog New York City

Advocates for delivery workers were blindsided. And one e-bike user told Streetsblog that the new ban would really make his life difficult.

nyc.streetsblog.org

An ebike ban will happen eventually. We are starting to see condo's banning them from the property. My nephew lives in the Vancouver area, the condo he lives in banned ebikes from being stored (parked) in individual apartments and on terraces. Dedicated garage space has been allocated. He is going to sell his bike. He thinks his bike will get stolen if he has to keep it in the parking garage.

Buildings in Toronto banned them as well.

Toronto apartment complex bans electric vehicles, citing fire risk

Ban applies to electric bikes, motorbikes, unicycles, hoverboards, mopeds, Segways, skateboards and scooters

nationalpost.com

 

[Metroscapes]

Oh good gravy, this again?

 

[micheal_can]

These apps didn't exist when I worked in DT Toronto back in 2009-2011. People simply left their desk and went to one of the many food courts in the underground.

A lot of smaller, family run, restaurants don't actually like using these apps because the apps get to take their cut from every order placed at the restaurant. These smaller restaurants are forced to increase their prices to compensate. In turn making their menus more expensive and less competitive with the bigger restaurants. These apps are designed to benefit the big chain, franchise restaurants like McDonald's. Restaurants that aren't exactly hurting to reach customers from further away.

I remember one time I placed an order at an independent pizzeria using Skip. When I went to pickup my order, the guy behind the counter kindly asked me to place my order by phone instead of using a delivery app. He said he would even throw in a couple free drinks with my next order. I pretty much stopped using delivery apps since then.

Do those food courts still exist?

It's not easy, but I try and do the least harm through my consumption habits, such as leaning more vegetarian and bulk packaged foods. For my food shopping, Canada's largest supermarket chains are union shops. Most restaurants I buy from are non-chain, owner operated. I do not use or support food delivery apps because they're both a waste of money and exploitative of immigrant unskilled labour. It's as if Canada is setting up a new caste system or renewing the Indian indenture system where you do whatever your overseers tell you in the hope of getting a residential permit. As a country, we can do better than this.

Back on topic, we want GO Transit to be used by commuters going to work or school and leisure travelers. Stuffing the system with potentially incendiary e-bikes and exploited international students to deliver our sandwiches to our lazy backsides is not right.

So, no.

 

[Jonny5]

Do those food courts still exist?

Yes. They are there and very busy with the overwhelming majority who don't use delivery apps.

So, no.

Maybe he goes to a grocery store like a grown up?

Your original thesis was that Toronto was non-viable as a "livable city" without food delivery drivers. That is so far into farce it's not possible to tell if you are playing a gag, or you genuinely live in some kind of extremely sheltered bubble where using food delivery apps daily isn't an extreme outlier scenario. Even delivery, take out, and restaurants combined are a minority of meals in this city. You must live in a Toronto on another planet.

 

[micheal_can]

Yes. They are there and very busy with the overwhelming majority who don't use delivery apps.

Maybe he goes to a grocery store like a grown up?

Your original thesis was that Toronto was non-viable as a "livable city" without food delivery drivers. That is so far into farce it's not possible to tell if you are playing a gag, or you genuinely live in some kind of extremely sheltered bubble where using food delivery apps daily isn't an extreme outlier scenario. Even delivery, take out, and restaurants combined are a minority of meals in this city. You must live in a Toronto on another planet.

Grocery store clerks and fast food workers do not earn a living wage. Regardless, the problem of scooters on GO trains is more of a sign of a problem then the actual problem. Fix that and those scooters also disappear.

 

[T3G]

An ebike ban will happen eventually. We are starting to see condo's banning them from the property. My nephew lives in the Vancouver area, the condo he lives in banned ebikes from being stored (parked) in individual apartments and on terraces. Dedicated garage space has been allocated. He is going to sell his bike. He thinks his bike will get stolen if he has to keep it in the parking garage.

Buildings in Toronto banned them as well.

Toronto apartment complex bans electric vehicles, citing fire risk

Ban applies to electric bikes, motorbikes, unicycles, hoverboards, mopeds, Segways, skateboards and scooters

nationalpost.com

Yawn. I'm so bored of this city, full of unimaginative, small minded people who make puritans seem positively liberal. Ban everything new, different, into oblivion, just don't do anything about any difficult problems. Just ban the problem and hope it goes away, be god damned to how many people they fuck over in the process.

I can well imagine an e-bike ban. Another on the long list of reasons why no one should continue to live here.

It's gonna be an absolute shitshow when the electric car lobby comes head to head with the afraid of all technological advancement lobby.

 

[robmausser]

Yawn. I'm so bored of this city, full of unimaginative, small minded people who make puritans seem positively liberal. Ban everything new, different, into oblivion, just don't do anything about any difficult problems. Just ban the problem and hope it goes away, be god damned to how many people they fuck over in the process.

I can well imagine an e-bike ban. Another on the long list of reasons why no one should continue to live here.

It's gonna be an absolute shitshow when the electric car lobby comes head to head with the afraid of all technological advancement lobby.

Yep. Forever and always "Toronto The Good".

The victorian puritanism ideologies of the past just reinvent themselves in some new way in the kin of the next generation.

 

[Northern Light]

Yawn. I'm so bored of this city, full of unimaginative, small minded people who make puritans seem positively liberal.

That neither describes most people in this City nor at UT.

This statement is profound overreach and it reads, frankly, like a BlogTO headline. "Toronto Hates" "Toronto Outraged" .... etc.

How about we bring the discussion back to reality. A more nuanced statement might be .......

" I disagree with this take, and think too many Torontonians are prone to overreacting .... "

Uh huh......

"If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

 

[Undead]

Yawn. I'm so bored of this city, full of unimaginative, small minded people who make puritans seem positively liberal. Ban everything new, different, into oblivion, just don't do anything about any difficult problems. Just ban the problem and hope it goes away, be god damned to how many people they fuck over in the process.

I can well imagine an e-bike ban. Another on the long list of reasons why no one should continue to live here.

It's gonna be an absolute shitshow when the electric car lobby comes head to head with the afraid of all technological advancement lobby.

That neither describes most people in this City nor at UT.

This statement is profound overreach and it reads, frankly, like a BlogTO headline. "Toronto Hates" "Toronto Outraged" .... etc.

How about we bring the discussion back to reality. A more nuanced statement might be .......

" I disagree with this take, and think too many Torontonians and prone to overreacting .... "

Uh huh......

"If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

Just because something is new doesn't mean it's good and change for the sake of change is not always desirable. Case in point, your last bit about EVs is questionable because there are serious and legitimate issues with EVs as they're currently constituted.

 

[WB62]

I have a question about the upcoming 15 minute service on Lakeshore later this month (it’s also my attempt at trying to get this thread back on topic).

I wasn’t as interested in GO back when they ran service this frequent in 2019/2021, at Union is there going to only be 5 minutes between when trains are displayed on the departure boards? Right now the platforms are displayed 10 minutes before on all departures outside of Niagara trains.

 

[tsm1072]

I have a question about the upcoming 15 minute service on Lakeshore later this month (it’s also my attempt at trying to get this thread back on topic).

I wasn’t as interested in GO back when they ran service this frequent in 2019/2021, at Union is there going to only be 5 minutes between when trains are displayed on the departure boards? Right now the platforms are displayed 10 minutes before on all departures outside of Niagara trains.

Form my memory of the 15 minute service previously, platform numbers were still shown 10 minutes beforehand.

 

[T3G]

That neither describes most people in this City nor at UT.

This statement is profound overreach and it reads, frankly, like a BlogTO headline. "Toronto Hates" "Toronto Outraged" .... etc.

How about we bring the discussion back to reality. A more nuanced statement might be .......

" I disagree with this take, and think too many Torontonians are prone to overreacting .... "

Uh huh......

"If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

Sorry, but I stand by my language of choice. Nothing but a highly insidious form of puritanism could be the driver behind the banning of electric personal transport, whether it be only at one condo corporation or in the entire city, or the advocating of same, and if it is not most people in the city, it is enough to affect the governance of the city in a material way (see also: e-scooters being banned). If we used the same logic currently being used against electric personal transport, we wouldn't have trains or planes or cars, which were all fairly sketchy at best in their early forms. Every technology in its infancy is going to encounter some difficulties, and instead of trying to work through that as a society we'll just ban it and hope it goes away.

"If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" should be the city's official motto.

Just because something is new doesn't mean it's good and change for the sake of change is not always desirable. Case in point, your last bit about EVs is questionable because there are serious and legitimate issues with EVs as they're currently constituted.

And yet, the only EVs I see pushback against are personal transport. I don't see any of this energy being used against electric cars and buses, I don't see the TTC threads being flooded with concerns about the flammability of the nearly 400 e-buses they've just ordered, despite there being quite a few high profile e-bus fires in the last couple of years, I don't see city council trying to stop the TTC from ordering these machines.

Which is it: are electric vehicles dangerous and should be banned, or are electric vehicles dangerous and should be banned unless their batteries are large enough and powerful enough to move a 12 m bus?

 

[Northern Light]

Sorry, but I stand by my language of choice.

Then you're wrong.

Nothing but a highly insidious form of puritanism could be the driver behind the banning of electric personal transport,

The City is not banning electric personal transport, nor is TTC or Metrolinx, again, this is wildly distanced from reality.

whether it be only at one condo corporation or in the entire city, or the advocating of same, and if it is not most people in the city, it is enough to affect the governance of the city in a material way (see also: e-scooters being banned). If we used the same logic currently being used against electric personal transport, we wouldn't have trains or planes or cars, which were all fairly sketchy at best in their early forms. Every technology in its infancy is going to encounter some difficulties, and instead of trying to work through that as a society we'll just ban it and hope it goes away.

Don't know what you slipped into the Cheerios; but I'll pass.

"If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" should be the city's official motto.


And yet, the only EVs I see pushback against are personal transport. I don't see any of this energy being used against electric cars and buses, I don't see the TTC threads being flooded with concerns about the flammability of the nearly 400 e-buses they've just ordered, despite there being quite a few high profile e-bus fires in the last couple of years, I don't see city council trying to stop the TTC from ordering these machines.

Which is it: are electric vehicles dangerous and should be banned, or are electric vehicles dangerous and should be banned unless their batteries are large enough and powerful enough to move a 12 m bus?

No one is banning personal transport writ large. There are ongoing discussions about whether that type of transport should be taken aboard confined space moving vehicles, following a fire on a subway which could easily have been lethal and seriously overcrowded GO Trains that caused people inconvenience and even to miss their scheduled run home.

That is an understandable and reasonable discussion to have.

That does not mean the final answer will be a large-scale ban.

But lets remember, the TTC has banned regular bicycles from rush-hour transit for decades. In rush hour, you park your bike at a station, or you can place it on the outside of a bus if there's room in the rack, but you can't legally board a train or a bus with it.

Temporal restrictions, type restrictions or caps on numbers are legitimate points of discussion. Its completely fair to argue for a policy that leans on the permissive rather than restrictive side. But you should make that argument rather than slagging the entire City of Toronto.

 

[crs1026]

Sorry, but I stand by my language of choice. Nothing but a highly insidious form of puritanism could be the driver behind the banning of electric personal transport, whether it be only at one condo corporation or in the entire city, or the advocating of same, and if it is not most people in the city, it is enough to affect the governance of the city in a material way (see also: e-scooters being banned). If we used the same logic currently being used against electric personal transport, we wouldn't have trains or planes or cars, which were all fairly sketchy at best in their early forms. Every technology in its infancy is going to encounter some difficulties, and instead of trying to work through that as a society we'll just ban it and hope it goes away.

"If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" should be the city's official motto.


And yet, the only EVs I see pushback against are personal transport. I don't see any of this energy being used against electric cars and buses, I don't see the TTC threads being flooded with concerns about the flammability of the nearly 400 e-buses they've just ordered, despite there being quite a few high profile e-bus fires in the last couple of years, I don't see city council trying to stop the TTC from ordering these machines.

Which is it: are electric vehicles dangerous and should be banned, or are electric vehicles dangerous and should be banned unless their batteries are large enough and powerful enough to move a 12 m bus?

I don't consider myself puritanical, nor do I advocate outright banning of the devices. There is much room for middle of the road solutions.

Bringing highly flammable battery devices into an enclosed public spaces has some obvious safety concerns. It so happens that e-mobility devices have greater amounts of flammable metals and greater amounts of stored energy than cellphones or laptops.... so yes I would say they deserve more scrutiny and possibly greater regulation.

E-vehicles may have even greater risk of fire, but the escapability from such an event is very different than from a fire on a subway car or heavy railcar in motion.

Seems to me the issue demands careful study. Calling for outright bans, and knee-jerk reaction to such calls, are equally unhelpful.

Can we get back to reasonable debate and seeing each others' points of view ?

- Paul

 

[T3G]

The City is not banning electric personal transport, nor is TTC or Metrolinx, again, this is wildly distanced from reality.

No, but this conversation came about because certain condo boards have banned these, which is already punitive and screws over a not small group of people, and a post further upthread said "An ebike ban will happen eventually." This seems fairly credible to me, as the city has already banned e-scooters for no legitimate reason. I am gratified to see the numbers of e-scooters growing every time I find myself in the city, but it is nevertheless the case that this is not sanctioned.

following a fire on a subway which could easily have been lethal

This is not a risk that would be eliminated by banning e-bikes. Buses burn down every now and then too, and did so before there even was electric personal transport.

seriously overcrowded GO Trains that caused people inconvenience and even to miss their scheduled run home

This is also not a problem that would go away if you banned e-bikes. Regular bikes can also lead to serious overcrowding, all it would take is one nice weekend with pent up demand on the Niagara train.

But lets remember, the TTC has banned regular bicycles from rush-hour transit for decades. In rush hour, you park your bike at a station, or you can place it on the outside of a bus if there's room in the rack, but you can't legally board a train or a bus with it.

Nonetheless, we are getting off topic here. I'm not talking about taking them on transit, I'm talking about the city or even individual condo boards banning them. If the transit system bans bikes from itself during rush hour, you have the option to leave your bike at home. Where exactly are you supposed to put it if your condo board bans e-bikes? Or if the whole city does? Suddenly you are up shit creek without a paddle.