VIA Rail

[roger1818]

I'm aware. What I said is that I would think they could do better with the level of traffic they have.

The big difference with Ottawa, compared to Montreal and Toronto is the absence of commuter rail. The number of intercity train passengers is small compared to the number of commuters and you can’t usually buy food or drinks on a commuter train.

HFR should help make things better as long, as VIA hasn’t signed some sort of exclusivity deal with the current tenant.

 

[SFO-YYZ]

Wayfinding is my pet peeve in Canadian cities. It's not just in transit. It broadly sucks everywhere. If you don't have a phone with an active simcard, finding your way around a Canadian city can be tough.

On topic, something else lacking at our stations is amenities. We don't have the kind of storage lockers you see in Europe. Most of our stations barely have a vending machine because they don't have much traffic. But I'm always surprised at places like Ottawa, which to me should have enough pax to support more than just a coffee shop. But maybe that'll improve with HFR levels of traffic.

But we do have lots of toilets, because that seems to be a high priority transit infrastructure especially in the GTA

 

[Urban Sky]

I wonder if the problem in Ottawa is that the Ottawa VIA station doesn't have a particular name like Toronto's "Union", Vancouver's "Pacific Central", Kitchener or Guelph's "Central", Montréal's "Centrale", Hamilton "Centre" etc. It does admittedly sound a bit weird to have an LRT station called "Train" station, or "Station" station. Perhaps they're trying to get "Tremblay Station" to catch on as the name for Ottawa's railway station - after all nobody complains that our "Union" subway station lacks an explicit mention of mainline railway trains. But if that's the case, VIA would need to be on board to call it Ottawa Tremblay station, just as they call it Toronto Union station..

If the name "Tremblay" doesn't catch on I think "Ottawa Station" could be an option for the name of the LRT station.

As a side note, I always thought that Ottawa's name was also "Union Station", which is also how the European Rail Timetable calls it (see below), but it seems like "Union Station" was only the name of the old station in what is now the Government Convention Center:

Historically, 'union' station meant a common passenger station shared by several competing users, but I guess it has evolved into a name unto itself.

Gosh, I was already about to send an Email to the Assistant Editor of the European Rail Timetable (I happen to not only be one of their loyal readers, but also their timetable corespondent for VIA), but good thing that I tried to find a definite source before lecturing them that they are wrong - because it turns out that they were actually correct and that calling it that way actually respects the naming convention @lenaitch mentioned:

HistoricPlaces.ca - HistoricPlaces.ca

Therefore, it seems like we have the ideal name to replace "Tremblay" with:

Credits: Breakfast Television Toronto


Or, more likely, this one (since all signs have to be bilingual in the national capital):

Credits: The Star

Where was the station in Welland in the latter years, when the Penn Central/Conrail tracks were rerouted into the Townline Tunnel? Was there a physical building, or a passenger shelter?

Don't spill your coffee!

Source: The Ontario Railway Map Collection for Google Earth

 

[roger1818]

Gosh, I was already about to send an Email to the Assistant Editor of the European Rail Timetable (I happen to not only be one of their loyal readers, but also their timetable corespondent for VIA), but good thing that I tried to find a definite source before lecturing them that they are wrong - because it turns out that they were actually correct and that calling it that way actually respects the naming convention @lenaitch mentioned:

View attachment 276554

HistoricPlaces.ca - HistoricPlaces.ca

Therefore, it seems like we have the ideal name to replace "Tremblay" with:

Spoiler: Hidden picture

Credits: Breakfast Television Toronto

Or more likely this one (since all signs have to be bilingual in the national capital):

Spoiler: Hidden picture

Credits: The Star

Considering the webpage you linked doesn't even call the station by its official name (in either language) as displayed on the front of the station and on the plaque near the entrance (it seems to think the station's official name is "VIA Rail Station" ), I would question the legitimacy of the "Canada's Historic Places" website.


Ottawa train station 2013 2
JustSomePics / CC BY-SA (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0)

Also, while it is true that both CN and CP used the station for about a decade (before VIA took over), that isn't enough to make its official name Union Station. While it was, at one point, a union station by definition, that doesn't make its name "Union Station." If it does, we should rename Montreal's train station to Union Station since it is used by Exo, VIA and Amtrak. In fact, Ottawa's station is no longer a union station as VIA is the only railway to use it (Toronto's station is used by GO, VIA, and partially by Amtrak).

The reality is, I have lived in Ottawa for 30 years and you are the first person I have heard call it "Union Station." Renaming the O-Train station to Union would cause as much confusion, as renaming Bonaventure Station in Montreal to "Union." I still stand by my argument that the best new name for the O-Train station would be "Trembley - VIA Rail."

 

[ShonTron]

Gosh, I was already about to send an Email to the Assistant Editor of the European Rail Timetable (I happen to not only be one of their loyal readers, but also their timetable corespondent for VIA), but good thing that I tried to find a definite source before lecturing them that they are wrong - because it turns out that they were actually correct and that calling it that way actually respects the naming convention @lenaitch mentioned:

View attachment 276554

HistoricPlaces.ca - HistoricPlaces.ca

Therefore, it seems like we have the ideal name to replace "Tremblay" with:

Credits: Breakfast Television Toronto


Or, more likely, this one (since all signs have to be bilingual in the national capital):

Credits: The Star





Don't spill your coffee!
View attachment 276564
Source: The Ontario Railway Map Collection for Google Earth

The building is still standing - but yikes, that's worse than Saskatoon's replacement station.

 

[micheal_can]

Considering the webpage you linked doesn't even call the station by its official name (in either language) as displayed on the front of the station and on the plaque near the entrance (it seems to think the station's official name is "VIA Rail Station" ), I would question the legitimacy of the "Canada's Historic Places" website.


Ottawa train station 2013 2
JustSomePics / CC BY-SA (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0)

View attachment 276603

Also, while it is true that both CN and CP used the station for about a decade (before VIA took over), that isn't enough to make its official name Union Station. While it was, at one point, a union station by definition, that doesn't make its name "Union Station." If it does, we should rename Montreal's train station to Union Station since it is used by Exo, VIA and Amtrak. In fact, Ottawa's station is no longer a union station as VIA is the only railway to use it (Toronto's station is used by GO, VIA, and partially by Amtrak).

The reality is, I have lived in Ottawa for 30 years and you are the first person I have heard call it "Union Station." Renaming the O-Train station to Union would cause as much confusion, as renaming Bonaventure Station in Montreal to "Union." I still stand by my argument that the best new name for the O-Train station would be "Trembley - VIA Rail."

Technically speaking, the LRT and via are using it, so, it could be labeled a "union" station. Maybe it should be called "Ottawa Union Station" on all services that go to it.

 

[ARG1]

Technically speaking, the LRT and via are using it, so, it could be labeled a "union" station. Maybe it should be called "Ottawa Union Station" on all services that go to it.

I feel like "Union Station" is a bit overused though, and I hope that if they do go for a name change, they try to come up with something more original.

 

[Urban Sky]

Considering the webpage you linked doesn't even call the station by its official name (in either language) as displayed on the front of the station and on the plaque near the entrance (it seems to think the station's official name is "VIA Rail Station" ), I would question the legitimacy of the "Canada's Historic Places" website.

As you can see in the top right corner of the screenshot I shared, the website is "A federal, provincial and territorial collaboration", but please feel free to share with Parks Canada your concerns about the legitimacy and accuracy of their website:

HistoricPlaces.ca - Contact Us

The Canadian Registrar is responsible for maintaining the accuracy of the listings and addressing public requests regarding a listing. You can reach us by email.

www.historicplaces.ca

Also, while it is true that both CN and CP used the station for about a decade (before VIA took over), that isn't enough to make its official name Union Station. While it was, at one point, a union station by definition, that doesn't make its name "Union Station." If it does, we should rename Montreal's train station to Union Station since it is used by Exo, VIA and Amtrak. In fact, Ottawa's station is no longer a union station as VIA is the only railway to use it (Toronto's station is used by GO, VIA, and partially by Amtrak).

Spot the difference: The Union Stations in Toronto and Ottawa (old and new) were built to consolidate the respective passenger rail services of Canadian National and Canadian Pacific. Gare Centrale in Montreal was built in 1943 to consolidate all operations of Canadian National from three different terminal stations: Tunnel Terminal (used by all services through the Mont-Royal tunnel), St. Catherine Est Station (used by services towards Joliette and Hervey Junction) and Bonaventure Station (used by all other services, heading either towards Dorval or the Queen Victoria bridge)...

Source: official Canadian National timetable (effective 1943-06-27)

The reality is, I have lived in Ottawa for 30 years and you are the first person I have heard call it "Union Station."

Just because nobody knows or uses a name doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Renaming the O-Train station to Union would cause as much confusion, as renaming Bonaventure Station in Montreal to "Union." I still stand by my argument that the best new name for the O-Train station would be "Trembley - VIA Rail."

Again, neither "Tremblay" (not: Trembley) nor "VIA Rail" provide tourists with sufficient assurance that this is the stop for the rail station. Naming the transit stations next to rail stations after the street its located on (unless the station is also named after that street, like "Lime Street" in Liverpool, "Liverpool Street" in London or "Friedrichstraße" in Berlin) or one of the operators which operates it, is just a disservice to any tourists in your city. I challenge you to name any primary transit station serving a major airport which doesn't have either the word "Airport" or "International" in its name...

I feel like "Union Station" is a bit overused though, and I hope that if they do go for a name change, they try to come up with something more original.

Unfortunately, being "original" is the worst approach when it comes to design your wayfinding in a way that tourists can navigate it without much frustrations...

 

[Bureaucromancer]

On the note of Ottawa actually being a union station, I thought this shot of the Canadian in the current station would be appreciated.

 

[roger1818]

Technically speaking, the LRT and via are using it, so, it could be labeled a "union" station. Maybe it should be called "Ottawa Union Station" on all services that go to it.

No. The O-Train uses a different station in a separate building adjacent to the Ottawa Station. The land the O-Train is using is mostly owned by the NCC (though they are using a corner of VIA Rail's land) and the land Ottawa station is on is owned by VIA Rail.

Made with Google My Maps
Imagery ©2020 CNES / Airbus, Maxar Technologies

From VIA Rail - Proposed Elevated Passenger Platforms for Ottawa Train Station

 

[roger1818]

As you can see in the top right corner of the screenshot I shared, the website is "A federal, provincial and territorial collaboration", but please feel free to share with Parks Canada your concerns about the legitimacy and accuracy of their website:
View attachment 276649
View attachment 276648

HistoricPlaces.ca - Contact Us

The Canadian Registrar is responsible for maintaining the accuracy of the listings and addressing public requests regarding a listing. You can reach us by email.

www.historicplaces.ca

I noticed that, but government agencies are not immune from making mistakes.

 

[roger1818]

On the note of Ottawa actually being a union station, I thought this shot of the Canadian in the current station would be appreciated.
View attachment 276673

Thanks for sharing the picture! There is certainly no debate that at one time it was a union station (lowercase u and s), but the debate is if it was ever given the official name "Union Station."

 

[reaperexpress]

No. The O-Train uses a different station in a separate building adjacent to the Ottawa Station. The land the O-Train is using is mostly owned by the NCC (though they are using a corner of VIA Rail's land) and the land Ottawa station is on is owned by VIA Rail.

View attachment 276661
Made with Google My Maps
Imagery ©2020 CNES / Airbus, Maxar Technologies

View attachment 276670
From VIA Rail - Proposed Elevated Passenger Platforms for Ottawa Train Station

According to that map, VIA owns the building on Terminal Street that backs onto the station. Good on them for having the foresight to acquire it, since it keeps the door open for an entrance on the south side of the tracks.

 

[roger1818]

According to that map, VIA owns the building on Terminal Street that backs onto the station. Good on them for having the foresight to acquire it, since it keeps the door open for an entrance on the south side of the tracks.

AFAIK, it was always theirs and is some type of service building (it has the same, "award wining," blank concrete wall architecture). I believe it is connected to the station via a tunnel. If you look back at old areal photographs of the station, you will see that it used to have tracks filling in the space between the buildings, but at some point the land was sold and the tracks were torn up.

1991 aerial photograph from geoOttawa Beta

2017 aerial photograph from geoOttawa Beta

 

[sacred]

According to that map, VIA owns the building on Terminal Street that backs onto the station. Good on them for having the foresight to acquire it, since it keeps the door open for an entrance on the south side of the tracks.

They can get started early and build the new intercity bus terminal there!