VIA Rail

[ManyQuestions]

That is really the failing of Ottawa's station. Just imagine in Toronto or Montreal doing that.

It's even worse now. Barriers for a taxi stand have been installed such that they completely block the sidewalk between the metro/lrt station and the via terminal. I had to walk along the roadway to make it to the Tremblay station when I returned from Montreal last week. The lack of any station integration is my single biggest disappointment with the lrt.

 

[Urban Sky]

It's even worse now. Barriers for a taxi stand have been installed such that they completely block the sidewalk between the metro/lrt station and the via terminal. I had to walk along the roadway to make it to the Tremblay station when I returned from Montreal last week. The lack of any station integration is my single biggest disappointment with the lrt.

Well, what kind of Transit Agency would name its LRT station at the only intercity rail station in its core service area after the street on which the station is located rather than the station itself (as if “Train” wasn’t questionable enough as a name of the BRT station it replaced)?

I was outrightly shocked when looking at their maps they handed out on the opening day for their LRT and discovering that the importance they place on this (Ottawa) Union Station is the same as a random gym. I’m really bewildered that people here (and in other forums) suspect Metrolinx of an uncooperative (or even hostile) attitude towards VIA, when OC Transpo doesn’t think that the rail station is any of the top destinations worth highlighting to visitors and first-time users...

 

[ARG1]

Well, what kind of Transit Agency would name its LRT station at the only intercity rail station in its core service area after the street on which the station is located rather than the station itself (as if “Train” wasn’t questionable enough as a name of the BRT station it replaced)?

I was outrightly shocked when looking at their maps they handed out on the opening day for their LRT and discovering that the importance they place on this (Ottawa) Union Station is the same as a random gym. I’m really bewildered that people here (and in other forums) suspect Metrolinx of an uncooperative (or even hostile) attitude towards VIA, when OC Transpo doesn’t think that the rail station is any of the top destinations worth highlighting to visitors and first-time users...

Via rail is still marked on the map, and when riding on the Confed Line, the announcer quite literally says "Tremblay - Via Rail". Its not that big of a deal. As a side note, from what I know the reason why there is no direct connection to the LRT is because Ottawa Station is considered a historical building, and a direct connection would have to go through a ton of red tape.

 

[Urban Sky]

Via rail is still marked on the map, and when riding on the Confed Line, the announcer quite literally says "Tremblay - Via Rail". Its not that big of a deal.

Yes, exactly, a tourist booked on a train to Montreal or Toronto is expected to scan the entire map for a tiny dot labelled “VIA Rail”, which is a tiny fraction of the size of of the dot used for “Lycée Claudel”, a private school - thus a destination where 99.9% of the people who need to go there are going there on a daily basis and which is still deemed worthy of having a BRT station named after it (just like the LRT station “uOttawa”):

By the way, I was accompanied by two transit experts (one of them was Anton Dubrau, a former designer and programmer for the “Transit” App and author of the excellent “Cat-Bus” blog I have quoted here numerous times and which clearly makes him one of the most knowledgeable people about Transit Maps, as this post highlights) and neither was able to find the rail station in less than a minute (!). So, sorry, this is a big deal because if even a seasoned transit expert (who has written entire articles about your transit system) can’t find your city’s intercity rail station with 1.2 million passengers annually (i.e. more than 3,000 per day) on your transit map, you can safely consider it a complete failure, as it fails pathetically at the one thing it is designed for: allowing the average, occasional or first-time user to identify how to get to any of your city’s major destinations...!

 

[kEiThZ]

It is indeed ridiculous that they dumped "Train" which was obvious enough for Tremblay. I don't know if that's as much the issue as how they mark it on maps. In other countries, stations can be named different things. But you can find them on the map. Even in a different language.

There is something even worse than the train station. The bus depot. Good luck to any tourist looking for that.

 

[kEiThZ]

As a side note, from what I know the reason why there is no direct connection to the LRT is because Ottawa Station is considered a historical building, and a direct connection would have to go through a ton of red tape.

I think they could have done a covered and heated walkway without much resistance. Or even a tunnel to the inside. The historical designation as I understand it is based on the the inside of the station.

 

[ARG1]

Yes, exactly, a tourist booked on a train to Montreal or Toronto is expected to scan the entire map for a tiny dot labelled “VIA Rail”, which is a tiny fraction of the size of of the dot used for “Lycée Claudel”, a private school - thus a destination where 99.9% of the people who need to go there are going there on a daily basis and which is still deemed worthy of having a BRT station named after it (just like the LRT station “uOttawa”):
View attachment 275371
By the way, I was accompanied by two transit experts (one of them was Anton Dubrau, a former designer and programmer for the “Transit” App and author of the excellent “Cat-Bus” blog I have quoted here numerous times and which clearly makes him one of the most knowledgeable people about Transit Maps, as this post highlights) and neither was able to find the rail station in less than a minute (!). So, sorry, this is a big deal because if even a seasoned transit expert (who has written entire articles about your transit system) can’t find your city’s intercity rail station with 1.2 million passengers annually (i.e. more than 3,000 per day) on your transit map, you can safely consider it a complete failure, as it fails pathetically at the one thing it is designed for: allowing the average, occasional or first-time user to identify how to get to any of your city’s major destinations...!

Actually I was referring to this map, but ye if you use that map I guess its kind of bad.

It is indeed ridiculous that they dumped "Train" which was obvious enough for Tremblay. I don't know if that's as much the issue as how they mark it on maps. In other countries, stations can be named different things. But you can find them on the map. Even in a different language.

There is something even worse than the train station. The bus depot. Good luck to any tourist looking for that.

Tbh I feel like the reason they dumped train was because it' be weird if you're riding on a train, and you arrive at "Train Station".

 

[reaperexpress]

Yes, exactly, a tourist booked on a train to Montreal or Toronto is expected to scan the entire map for a tiny dot labelled “VIA Rail”, which is a tiny fraction of the size of of the dot used for “Lycée Claudel”, a private school - thus a destination where 99.9% of the people who need to go there are going there on a daily basis and which is still deemed worthy of having a BRT station named after it (just like the LRT station “uOttawa”):

By the way, I was accompanied by two transit experts (one of them was Anton Dubrau, a former designer and programmer for the “Transit” App and author of the excellent “Cat-Bus” blog I have quoted here numerous times and which clearly makes him one of the most knowledgeable people about Transit Maps, as this post highlights) and neither was able to find the rail station in less than a minute (!). So, sorry, this is a big deal because if even a seasoned transit expert (who has written entire articles about your transit system) can’t find your city’s intercity rail station with 1.2 million passengers annually (i.e. more than 3,000 per day) on your transit map, you can safely consider it a complete failure, as it fails pathetically at the one thing it is designed for: allowing the average, occasional or first-time user to identify how to get to any of your city’s major destinations...!

Meanwhile the Waterloo LRT already has a stop named for a train station which hasn't even started construction yet:

I wonder if the problem in Ottawa is that the Ottawa VIA station doesn't have a particular name like Toronto's "Union", Vancouver's "Pacific Central", Kitchener or Guelph's "Central", Montréal's "Centrale", Hamilton "Centre" etc. It does admittedly sound a bit weird to have an LRT station called "Train" station, or "Station" station. Perhaps they're trying to get "Tremblay Station" to catch on as the name for Ottawa's railway station - after all nobody complains that our "Union" subway station lacks an explicit mention of mainline railway trains. But if that's the case, VIA would need to be on board to call it Ottawa Tremblay station, just as they call it Toronto Union station..

If the name "Tremblay" doesn't catch on I think "Ottawa Station" could be an option for the name of the LRT station.

 

[sacred]

Meanwhile the Waterloo LRT already has a stop named for a train station which hasn't even started construction yet:

I wonder if the problem in Ottawa is that the Ottawa VIA station doesn't have a particular name like Toronto's "Union", Vancouver's "Pacific Central", Kitchener or Guelph's "Central", Montréal's "Centrale", Hamilton "Centre" etc. It does admittedly sound a bit weird to have an LRT station called "Train" station, or "Station" station. Perhaps they're trying to get "Tremblay Station" to catch on as the name for Ottawa's railway station - after all nobody complains that our "Union" subway station lacks an explicit mention of mainline railway trains. But if that's the case, VIA would need to be on board to call it Ottawa Tremblay station, just as they call it Toronto Union station..

If the name "Tremblay" doesn't catch on I think "Ottawa Station" could be an option for the name of the LRT station.

The station isn't on Belfast Road, but Belfast Station already sounds better to me. The immediate surrounding area isn't very interesting geographically, but if we were a bit closer to the Rideau River we could call it something like River or Riverview Station...
I wish there was more room for originality in North American rail station names...
However, if VIA HFR gets done this decade, I propose renaming the VIA and Otrain stations after whichever politician (or civil servant) pulls it off.
As the area around Ottawa VIA station develops (as I hope it does, despite being bounded by roads and rails), maybe it'll grow some kind of identity. Becoming a better intermodal hub would help, no doubt.
As the Catherine Street terminal winds down (officially named Ottawa Central Station! I forgot about that), I really hope intercity bus services move to the VIA station. I was scouting around and I saw this building which doesn't seem too bustling, and which would have a ~2 minute walk to the Tremblay Otrain stop.

 

[roger1818]

Spoiler

View attachment 275381

Actually I was referring to this map, but ye if you use that map I guess its kind of bad.

When I'm visiting a new city, I tend to use "Metro" maps like the one you posted initially as the full route map is overwhelming. Only once I get more comfortable with the city do I look at the full route map to see if a bus will get me closer to where I want to go. I do agree that Ottawa's full route map has some serious issues though. For one it isn't a map but a diagram as it isn't to scale (they have compressed some distances to try and fit more detail on a single map. This can make it difficult to judge how far you will need to walk to get to your destination from a given stop..

Tbh I feel like the reason they dumped train was because it' be weird if you're riding on a train, and you arrive at "Train Station".

That makes a lot of sense. One idea would to rename the O-Train station to "Tremblay - VIA Rail."

The problem isn't unique to Ottawa. The Skytrain station for Pacific Central Station in Vancouver is called "Main Street–Science World." Their system maps are available in multiple levels of detail. Here is a clip of the most detailed "Downtown Vancouver" map:

Zoom out one notch to the "Vancouver" map, and it doesn't even show the station (nor does the "Complete Metro Vancouver Transit System Map").

Now granted VIA only has occasional service, but Amtrak does have a couple trains a day..

 

[ARG1]

Meanwhile the Waterloo LRT already has a stop named for a train station which hasn't even started construction yet:

I wonder if the problem in Ottawa is that the Ottawa VIA station doesn't have a particular name like Toronto's "Union", Vancouver's "Pacific Central", Kitchener or Guelph's "Central", Montréal's "Centrale", Hamilton "Centre" etc. It does admittedly sound a bit weird to have an LRT station called "Train" station, or "Station" station. Perhaps they're trying to get "Tremblay Station" to catch on as the name for Ottawa's railway station - after all nobody complains that our "Union" subway station lacks an explicit mention of mainline railway trains. But if that's the case, VIA would need to be on board to call it Ottawa Tremblay station, just as they call it Toronto Union station..

If the name "Tremblay" doesn't catch on I think "Ottawa Station" could be an option for the name of the LRT station.

I think that is partially the goal actually. I went to Ottawa for first year of uni last year, and a lot of us started calling the intercity train station Tremblay because of the Otrain Station.

 

[Bordercollie]

Is this the same route considered for the GO transit service to Niagara? Instead of the Grimsby Sub?

 

[roger1818]

I think that is partially the goal actually. I went to Ottawa for first year of uni last year, and a lot of us started calling the intercity train station Tremblay because of the Otrain Station Station.

It is becoming common here. I doubt if VIA will call it Tremblay as they will want a name that indicates it is Ottawa’s main station (as opposed to Fallowfield).

 

[Urban Sky]

That makes a lot of sense. One idea would to rename the O-Train station to "Tremblay - VIA Rail."

OC Transpo's insistence on referring to the service operator rather than identifying the function of the destination served (i.e. "rail station") is repeating the same mistake Metrolinx did when putting up the signage for their UP Express: tourists (i.e. the type of transit systems the least familiar with the names and logo of local/national transport operators) don't look out for and recognize brand names like "UP” (or “UP Express"), "VIA" (or "VIA Rail"), "TTC", "STM", "OC Transpo" or "O-Train" since they generally don't know them. Metrolinx learnt this the hard way and had to add signs with "Trains to the Airport" and "Trains to Downtown" next to their cherished and supposedly self-explanatory UP logo as that was what tourists were actually looking for. Confusing wayfinding with branding (or just being stubbornly ignorant like OC Transpo) is the best way to have tourists take the taxi instead and to mention back home how awfully confusing transit is when asked by their families and friends how they liked the cities and places they've visited. So call your damn transit station at the rail station just that: "Rail Station" and make sure that the railway lines are actually visible in your damn map!

As a side note, I always thought that Ottawa's name was also "Union Station", which is also how the European Rail Timetable calls it (see below), but it seems like "Union Station" was only the name of the old station in what is now the Government Convention Center:

Source: European Rail Timetable, Summer 2016 Edition
Note: I deliberately chose an old schedule, to not interfere with the commercial interests of the excellent ERT team and I strongly encourage everyone interested in what's going on with the rail services around the world to consider buying (or subscribe to) their highly informative European Rail Timetable (which includes an extensive and comprehensive "Beyond Europe" section).

 

[lenaitch]

Historically, 'union' station meant a common passenger station shared by several competing users, but I guess it has evolved into a name unto itself.