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TTC: New Fare Gate Installation

adHominem said:
Still not functional, though. :/

I was wondering what they'd do about the gap between the gates and the wall; it's large enough for a person to walk through. I noticed today going through Bay that they've blocked off those gaps with caution tape and a chair. Problem solved, I guess.
Click to expand...

There are other stations with gaps next to the new gates as well. Obviously they will need to install new barriers to fit but they certainly don't seem to be in a rush about it.
 
Those are good pictures to comprehend just what's involved in this upgrade.

Note the big new electrical conduit....those new gates require electrical power, fed thru the bottom. It's not quick to jackhammer out the old footings for the gates, install conduit, re-pour the terazzo, set the new mounts for the gates, polish grind the terazzo, install the gates.

Gives one a better feel for why it takes so long.

Also a cautionary tale for station design. The 1960s designers would never have believed so much retrofitting and upgrading. The B-D stations look pretty scruffy these days, between worn floors and decades of changes to signage and
telecom... each iteration having its own conduits, mounting brackets, and drill holes left behind. It's hard to plan for what hasn't been imagined yet.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
Those are good pictures to comprehend just what's involved in this upgrade.

Note the big new electrical conduit....those new gates require electrical power, fed thru the bottom. It's not quick to jackhammer out the old footings for the gates, install conduit, re-pour the terazzo, set the new mounts for the gates, polish grind the terazzo, install the gates.

Gives one a better feel for why it takes so long.

Also a cautionary tale for station design. The 1960s designers would never have believed so much retrofitting and upgrading. The B-D stations look pretty scruffy these days, between worn floors and decades of changes to signage and
telecom... each iteration having its own conduits, mounting brackets, and drill holes left behind. It's hard to plan for what hasn't been imagined yet.

- Paul
Click to expand...
Regardless all I ask of them is that they actually have a tangible and reasonable work schedule and that they are actually working on the gates unlike how they maintain the escalators....you can spend a week with non functional escalators at times because of the gaps in the work schedule
 
P23 said:
There are other stations with gaps next to the new gates as well. Obviously they will need to install new barriers to fit but they certainly don't seem to be in a rush about it.
Click to expand...

I assume they need to leave gaps for future servicing (the gates look to have access hatches on the side, to tinker with the guts), but the solution in every station – even in stations where the install is otherwise complete – seems so ad-hoc it's a little odd.
 
adHominem said:
I assume they need to leave gaps for future servicing (the gates look to have access hatches on the side, to tinker with the guts), but the solution in every station – even in stations where the install is otherwise complete – seems so ad-hoc it's a little odd.
Click to expand...
Presumably the gates are standard widths and undoubtedly the locations they are being installed in are not. This will mean that almost every location will have 'custom made filler panel(s)'. If I were at the TTC I would be concentrating on the complex task of installing the gates ASAP and worrying about the 'fillers' at the end. Let's hold off on our criticism until they are actually finished.
 
It's like baseboard molding. It's there to hide the gaps.

Installing-baseboard-molding-joints-oldhouseweb.jpg


Still may need caulking to give it finished look.
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Taken this afternoon at Bay station's Cumberland entrance. 1st faregate is out of service, defaulted to open. Zero TTC staff in sight, plainly inviting free rides. I still tapped my Presto card but many others were walking in through the open gate. Not that the rope to the right is a huge deterrent either...

I understand that for safety reasons a faulty gate must default to open, but with no staff in sight it's a problem. The last thing the TTC needs right now given their budget situation (thanks, Tory) is to start hemorraging fare revenue. They have to go full POP ASAP and seriously enforce it, or monitor all station entrances.
 

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Megaton327 said:
Taken this afternoon at Bay station's Cumberland entrance. 1st faregate is out of service, defaulted to open. Zero TTC staff in sight, plainly inviting free rides. I still tapped my Presto card but many others were walking in through the open gate. Not that the rope to the right is a huge deterrent either...

I understand that for safety reasons a faulty gate must default to open, but with no staff in sight it's a problem. The last thing the TTC needs right now given their budget situation (thanks, Tory) is to start hemorraging fare revenue. They have to go full POP ASAP and seriously enforce it, or monitor all station entrances.
Click to expand...

Well I guess the CCTV right in front can sort of act as a deterrent.....IF its functional and recording
 
cplchanb said:
Well I guess the CCTV right in front can sort of act as a deterrent.....IF its functional and recording
Click to expand...

1) Those record on a closed loop. Footage is overwritten somewhat frequently if not saved. Probably somewhere around 48-72 hours. Tweets back to me from TTC indicate that they had not been aware of this--I don't know how long it's been open, but if they don't know about the problem, they can't save the CCTV loop.

2) Let's say it's only open for 1 service day. Call that 20 hours for simplicity. As for the number of people likely to enter without paying their fare, who don't have a valid metropass, let's call that 10 per hour, which I think is seriously lowballing the desire for fare evasion even at a secondary entrance of a less-used station in a well-off neighbourhood like this. That's 200 per day. Even assuming it's only one day, and assuming the TTC were aware of it and cared to save CCTV, that's 200 people who they have to definitively identify, beyond any reasonable doubt, based on CCTV footage. That seems unlikely given the quality of CCTV.

3) They have to prove, based on CCTV, that those people did not have a valid metropass at the time of travel. This is virtually impossible, there is no way to prove they did not. I know By-Law No. 1 prohibits even metropass holders from, say, walking in through a bus bay, but I don't know if there's necessarily a technicality that would make entering through such a faregate with a metropass, just not swiping it, illegal. That would depend on the wording of a by-law, and then the offense goes down to something like unauthorized entrance vs. failure to pay fare, if they can't prove you didn't hold a metropass in your pocket. And a judge is probably going to throw it out altogether if it's a "metropass holder" who simply walked in through an open gate instead of swiping. This is allowed at many places in the TTC by flashing it towards a collector...

So, in the end, I don't think CCTV is a way to actually prosecute anyone for evasion. A deterrent? I think anyone who'd likely walk in here wouldn't be deterred by a camera in a corner, but I suppose there's no way to know for sure.

At any rate, not great.

EDIT: Actually, the only reference I could find to this in bylaw 1 is: "3.3 No person shall enter or leave TTC property except through a designated entrance or exit, as the case may be."

The faregates are undoubtedly a designated entrance. If one has failed and is fully open, that certainly looks inviting--I don't think the argument could possibly be made that "the faregate failed and defaulted to open, so it's no longer an entrance"...if it defaulted to closed and someone hopped it, of course, but once it's open, I don't think that would be an issue.

So it looks like this wouldn't even be enforceable.
 
Ugh... these floors are terrible. Even stations that have gone through a revitalization (ie Dufferin), the floors remain stained and worn.

This doesn't seem terribly complicated. Can we not hire a couple of guys with a floor sander and polisher to spend a year or two doing nothing but sanding floors in station concourses and on platforms during closed hours?

image-jpeg.84736
 
MetroMan said:
Ugh... these floors are terrible. Even stations that have gone through a revitalization (ie Dufferin), the floors remain stained and worn.

This doesn't seem terribly complicated. Can we not hire a couple of guys with a floor sander and polisher to spend a year or two doing nothing but sanding floors in station concourses and on platforms during closed hours?

image-jpeg.84736
Click to expand...

Sure. Now that our man Justin has stepped up to the plate. Till now, floor cleaning looked like a frill behind say AC units on T1 trains. Or maybe track work on the streetcar network. A half a billion dollars should buy some nice upkeep.
 
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MetroMan said:
Ugh... these floors are terrible. Even stations that have gone through a revitalization (ie Dufferin), the floors remain stained and worn.

This doesn't seem terribly complicated. Can we not hire a couple of guys with a floor sander and polisher to spend a year or two doing nothing but sanding floors in station concourses and on platforms during closed hours?
Click to expand...

Is a floor sander what you would use on that kind of surface?
 
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