TTC: New Fare Gate Installation

[44 North]

I prefer the old ones. The new ones are so slow. I want to be able to rush through the gate; not stop 0.75 seconds while the thing takes its time opening.

So does the majority of the city it seems, and kinda the way things work in traffic or fluid dynamics (e.g laminar flow vs turbulent flow). Once you place an obstruction into a smooth flow, a jam will be created and riders will get mighty angry. I'm wondering if there's been incidences yet of the gates breaking from riders just ramming into them (either because of purposeful drunken foolery or some kind of peak crush situation).

Haven't tried the new gates yet, but how would it work with a child in tow. The child is free, but you put your card in while either standing behind/ahead. Will the gates stay open for two to pass through, or immediately close (requiring another fare to be paid or a gate-hop situation)?

 

[P23]

Would it be helpful to indicate stations where Presto readers are installed but they're at a secondary entrance rather than the main one? For example, St George still has turnstiles and no readers at the main St George entrance, but it has the readers at the Bedford entrance.

Probably, but again this info doesn't seem readily available from the TTC. If someone posts it here I could do so.

I've updated the list with the other info provided.

 

[P23]

So how are people liking the new gates so far? Anyone prefer the old ones?

The old turnstiles are at the perfect height to hit my crotch if I didn't push them open with my hand, so the new gates are a big improvement in my life.

 

[DSC]

I prefer the old ones. The new ones are so slow. I want to be able to rush through the gate; not stop 0.75 seconds while the thing takes its time opening.

The new gates seem pretty similar to those I have used in London, Milan, Paris and they seem to have no problems there. Are ours really slower or are we seeing the normal Torontonian Complaints?

 

[amnesiajune]

The child is free, but you put your card in while either standing behind/ahead. Will the gates stay open for two to pass through, or immediately close (requiring another fare to be paid or a gate-hop situation)?

Kids will probably have to keep going through the collector's gate for now. I'm guessing that the TTC will eventually have to get rid of age-based cash fares and move to Presto discounts. In other words, if you don't have a Presto card marked as "child", "student" or "senior", you'll pay a $3.25 cash far.

Are ours really slower or are we seeing the normal Torontonian Complaints?

There's only one answer. OMG I have to wait an entire half second to enter the subway!?! And soon we'll also get Internet Armchair Expert telling us all the ways this system was designed by an idiot.

 

[rbt]

I walk too fast and always have to stop myself for a sec before I slam into them as they take a second to open.

Moscow solves that problem. By default their doors are open. If you try to go through the gates without valid fare then the doors crush you; and if you slip through then the station attendant will catch you.

Probably saves the door mechanisms a hundred thousand cycles per year too.

There's only one answer. OMG I have to wait an entire half second to enter the subway!?! And soon we'll also get Internet Armchair Expert telling us all the ways this system was designed by an idiot.

Half a second delay is far too long. Is that what they cause here? London/Paris target about 1/3rd of a second so the normal walking speed doesn't need to be interrupted. That's important so you don't get massive backups at transfer stations like Union. If it really is half a second then somebody botched the design (either at fare authentication or the gate mechanism).

Most passengers should be able to reach your arm out, tap the card, and continue through the gate at a fairly normal walking pace without slowing down.

 

[adHominem]

The old turnstiles are at the perfect height to hit my crotch if I didn't push them open with my hand, so the new gates are a big improvement in my life.

Particularly on the first of the month, when you've forgotten to switch to the new Metropass. I get a rude reminder of that at least a couple times a year...

Dufferin is about two months behind the original schedule, and counting (the gates were finally installed two weeks ago, but there's no indication they'll be working any time soon – they just display angry red x's. One nice thing, though, is that once they're up and running, the newish Russett exit will become another entrance (Presto-only, though, no Metropass swipe thing is apparent).

High Park is under way, I saw yesterday. The main entrance is all walled off.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Real high-speed costs too much, with budget cut orders from Tory. They only can afford dial-up.

Probably on a two-party line as well.

 

[Fred.S]

No problem, I marked those stations that have readers with an asterisk. I used this map for info, not sure how up to date it is: https://www.ttc.ca/PDF/Maps/Presto_ Station_Map.pdf

Great, thanks!

So how are people liking the new gates so far? Anyone prefer the old ones?

I really like them, and think they are a huge improvement. However I do wish they were faster, they do lag a bit when compared to other cities with similar gates.

 

[TransitBart]

So how are people liking the new gates so far? Anyone prefer the old ones?

Yeah. I miss the turnstiles a lot. I remember walking into one more than once drunk in my 20s and getting squared. I love how when the token isn't quite in, they can lock as you push through and catch the bags in your hands, or your briefcase, groceries or umbrella.

Stone Age technology. Good times. Turnstiles. Love 'em. Memories of visiting old Exhibition Stadium or Maple Leaf Gardens; modern edifices both with their trough-style urinals.

When I think of turnstiles, I think world-class all the way, baby.

 

[TransitBart]

I prefer the old ones. The new ones are so slow. I want to be able to rush through the gate; not stop 0.75 seconds while the thing takes its time opening.

They have them timed for North America. In Asia, elevators close more quickly and escalators run faster. In Asia, you can walk at a brisk pace and they are timed well. If we were in Hong Kong, people would raise a stink about how slow they open. That society has no patience for things that "almost" work. Or people who dawdle.

 

[TransitBart]

So does the majority of the city it seems, and kinda the way things work in traffic or fluid dynamics (e.g laminar flow vs turbulent flow). Once you place an obstruction into a smooth flow, a jam will be created and riders will get mighty angry. I'm wondering if there's been incidences yet of the gates breaking from riders just ramming into them (either because of purposeful drunken foolery or some kind of peak crush situation).

Haven't tried the new gates yet, but how would it work with a child in tow. The child is free, but you put your card in while either standing behind/ahead. Will the gates stay open for two to pass through, or immediately close (requiring another fare to be paid or a gate-hop situation)?

The gates 'sense' I believe. This is not the first installation of fare gates in the world folks. It's a late twentieth century invention coming to North America's fourth largest (and yearning to be world-class city) about twenty years late. Bring it on.

 

[Megaton327]

Haven't tried the new gates yet, but how would it work with a child in tow. The child is free, but you put your card in while either standing behind/ahead. Will the gates stay open for two to pass through, or immediately close (requiring another fare to be paid or a gate-hop situation)?

Presto cards will soon be required for children. You show proof of age at a TTC, GO, or other customer service outlet, and they set the card to 'child' with the expiration date being their 13th birthday. On the TTC, when you tap a faregate with a Child Presto card, it will deduct $0.00 and open the gate.

Even now you can use child Presto cards--I believe @nfitz has mentioned he does so. I think the official line is that unless you have a baby or toddler, you should not try to both go through the gate, it should be 1 tap per person. If the child doesn't have a Presto card they're supposed to go through the collector aisle at a manned entrance.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

So does the majority of the city it seems, and kinda the way things work in traffic or fluid dynamics (e.g laminar flow vs turbulent flow). Once you place an obstruction into a smooth flow, a jam will be created and riders will get mighty angry. I'm wondering if there's been incidences yet of the gates breaking from riders just ramming into them (either because of purposeful drunken foolery or some kind of peak crush situation).

Sorry, turbulent flow is exactly what we're getting now - and you know what the problem isn't the turnstyles (or fare gates) - it is riders who are clueless and/or inconsiderate and disrupt the flow, or bad station design that lead to crossflow (best example - Union subway station - the TTC is utterly ridiculous, plus you always get the clueless standing in the middle - because that's where the attendant is - blocking everyone off). And sorry, turnstyles that goes both ways lead to less predictability and more conflict.

AoD

 

[44 North]

Sorry, turbulent flow is exactly what we're getting now - and you know what the problem isn't the turnstyles (or fare gates) - it is riders who are clueless and/or inconsiderate and disrupt the flow, or bad station design that lead to crossflow (best example - Union subway station - the TTC is utterly ridiculous, plus you always get the clueless standing in the middle - because that's where the attendant is - blocking everyone off). And sorry, turnstyles that goes both ways lead to less predictability and more conflict.

AoD

No doubt we have numerous obstructions creating 'turbulence'. Then the variables like the wayward tourist or those with mobility issues. Some of this is "bad station design", or perhaps stations that are inherently too small and were never designed for such loads as we're seeing today. With Union though I like how they have an open gate. It's oftentimes an honour system, seeing that many can walk through without any fare (I've walked past four transit officers and a fare collector without even attempting to pay). I have zero qualms with removing turnstyles. However I do wonder if the fare gate takes 0.25-0.5 sec longer to accept/compute/open, could that cause unnecessary bottlenecks? And/or can the machines be accelerated or be designed to stay open during peak periods? IIRC the AG noted that much of the presto system/infrastructure is proprietary, and although it's one of the most expensive systems in the world, the contractor hasn't met some of the guidelines agreed to before rollout. Would these faregates fall under the presto umbrella, or are they a TTC endeavour?