drum118
Superstar
Key!!
Watermain replacement will happen first if you read Joe posting.
Why do things twice when it can be done once?
Vaughan is tore up now for the waterline.
There a lot of waterline work taking place just south of St Clair.
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Key!!
Watermain replacement will happen first if you read Joe posting.
Why do things twice when it can be done once?
Vaughan is tore up now for the waterline.
There a lot of waterline work taking place just south of St Clair.
Chris84
New Member
Are you saying Phase III construction cannot begin until the watermain on Vaughan is completed?
The new pipe is already in place under Vaughan, tied in at St. Clair and water was being flushed through it onto the road the other day.
Phase III was to begin in the spring and the watermain has been in the plan for a long time. The new rails have been sitting in the middle of the road for months and Hydro has moved traffic signals onto temporary poles. I'm just wondering why half the construction season is passing by before the real work begins?
catcher_of_cats
Active Member
I'm just wondering why half the construction season is passing by before the real work begins?[/QUOTE]
Because we live in Toronto and that is how things are done.
Because we live in Toronto and that is how things are done.
drum118
Superstar
Have you look at what is taking place on Vaughan?
As I walked past the place today, copper pipe and fitting where being install for the first of the many place where the water line connect to the stores and houses along the street.
I believe only 3 of the other 30 plus location is just getting underway. Did not take any photos for this area compare to Bathurst and St Clair
There are places to be done on St Clair also.
Lansdowne to Caledonia was close to westbound traffic Friday until 6pm due to tearing up parts of the road and pouring concrete. Took us 10 minutes to travel this section at 3pm.
It will not be ready to open at 6pm as there no place to drive without falling into the fresh pour concrete. Asphalt may be put down tonight.
Traffic was rerouted to Davenport.
On top of this, a carnival is underway in the park with rides.
The last of the sidewalk work should be finish by the 20th on the north side except where the paver's have to go unless they show up next week.
2 of the spare streetcars are in service as 4149/85 are sitting in the westbound track now.
If these cars cannot be put back into service and anymore than 1 fails over the next 2 months, TTC will be short a streetcar or 2. If this happens, replace the streetcars with buses until 2009 when streetcars can run to Lansdowne loop.
If anyone thinks including TTC that the ROW itself can be put into operation by years end is dreaming. It taken almost 6 months to do the ROW that less than haft the size of the section. The platform still have to be built.
As I walked past the place today, copper pipe and fitting where being install for the first of the many place where the water line connect to the stores and houses along the street.
I believe only 3 of the other 30 plus location is just getting underway. Did not take any photos for this area compare to Bathurst and St Clair
There are places to be done on St Clair also.
Lansdowne to Caledonia was close to westbound traffic Friday until 6pm due to tearing up parts of the road and pouring concrete. Took us 10 minutes to travel this section at 3pm.
It will not be ready to open at 6pm as there no place to drive without falling into the fresh pour concrete. Asphalt may be put down tonight.
Traffic was rerouted to Davenport.
On top of this, a carnival is underway in the park with rides.
The last of the sidewalk work should be finish by the 20th on the north side except where the paver's have to go unless they show up next week.
2 of the spare streetcars are in service as 4149/85 are sitting in the westbound track now.
If these cars cannot be put back into service and anymore than 1 fails over the next 2 months, TTC will be short a streetcar or 2. If this happens, replace the streetcars with buses until 2009 when streetcars can run to Lansdowne loop.
If anyone thinks including TTC that the ROW itself can be put into operation by years end is dreaming. It taken almost 6 months to do the ROW that less than haft the size of the section. The platform still have to be built.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Alarm over St. Clair ROW
From the Star:
I can see the problem with the grass and stones in the right-of-way. Maybe they should fill in with concrete.
Okay, but the poles could be put to one side.
Okay, some of them are. Maybe they could put more of them in.
Just how wide are the the fire trucks? How wide are buses?
If the right-of-way is still too narrow, its a good thing a BRT was not put in as the right-of-way would have to be even wider.
From the Star:
I can see the problem with the grass and stones in the right-of-way. Maybe they should fill in with concrete.
Okay, but the poles could be put to one side.
Okay, some of them are. Maybe they could put more of them in.
Just how wide are the the fire trucks? How wide are buses?
If the right-of-way is still too narrow, its a good thing a BRT was not put in as the right-of-way would have to be even wider.
Archivist
Senior Member
Bloody hell to firemen. If it were up to them every square inch of the city would be paved for their damn trucks. I don't exactly see Europe burning down in flames despite their narrow streets. If they have been purchasing the wrong vehicles for our city, perhaps they should reconsider.
ShonTron
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Part of the problem was with amalgamation. Not only did the new Fire Department want a standard vehicle, it was dominated by suburban heads, like former NYFD [not FDNY] Chief Al Speed.
There's got to be even some North American cities that need fire engines suited to smaller streets, like Boston, Quebec, and San Francisco (if only to climb some of those steep, narrow residental streets). When there, I didn't look closely at their engines, but I also think one size does not fit all.
The only valid point is that the centre poles are a problem. Buses can not easily use the ROW either in the event of a streetcar outage, except in areas immediately around St. Clair West Station. Spadina still looks good with the span wires.
There's got to be even some North American cities that need fire engines suited to smaller streets, like Boston, Quebec, and San Francisco (if only to climb some of those steep, narrow residental streets). When there, I didn't look closely at their engines, but I also think one size does not fit all.
The only valid point is that the centre poles are a problem. Buses can not easily use the ROW either in the event of a streetcar outage, except in areas immediately around St. Clair West Station. Spadina still looks good with the span wires.
simply Dan
Active Member
This is unbelievable. How many years has the TTC and the city been planning this ROW? How many environmental assessments and changes and amendments were made throughout the design and construction process? How delayed has this project already been? Now that a significant portion of the line is finished does the fire department complain about design flaws?? C’mon people!!
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
The fire engines have sirens - use them - and if the drivers fails to yield, prosecute them. There are narrower streets than St. Clair and did anyone suggests that we should have a ROW for emergency vehicles? No.
What the city really need is executive powers to crack the whip where needs be to makes sure these ABCs don't run around working contrary to the interests of the city as a whole.
As to TFS specifics - if they have had their way, places like the Regent Park redevelopment would have looked distinctively suburban (esp. wrt street width). It's not like they didn't try.
AoD
What the city really need is executive powers to crack the whip where needs be to makes sure these ABCs don't run around working contrary to the interests of the city as a whole.
As to TFS specifics - if they have had their way, places like the Regent Park redevelopment would have looked distinctively suburban (esp. wrt street width). It's not like they didn't try.
AoD
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
From the Post:
Hall Monitor: St. Clair streetcar right-of-way under fire... by fire department
Posted: June 18, 2008, 5:13 PM by Allison Hanes
TTC, Hall Monitor, St. Clair W., street car right-of-way
The much-maligned St. Clair streetcar right-of-way has been under fire from local residents virtually since its inception. But now a fire department report has validated some of their initial concerns – suggesting that the placement of the poles down the centre of the dedicated transit line make it too narrow for fire engines to navigate and thus could cause delays in emergency response times.
“Our concerns have been vindicated by this report… but it’s not a pleasant feeling to be vindicated,†said Margaret Smith, chair of Save Our St. Clair, a grassroots group that has spent years countering the 6.7-kilometre, $95-million project. “I would much rather have been wrong than to be in this situation today.â€
The two-month-old report was made public yesterday by city councillor Cesar Palacio (Davenport) another avid opponent, who posted in on his web site. He said it was drafted in response to a series of questions he asked last fall.
"It’s a design flaw in my opinion," Mr. Palacio said. "The centre poles that have been built will be an impediment to the fire trucks, where the vehicles can be damaged or they can flip over… even they go as far to say that a head-on collision with the TTC may happen."
Due to the central row of poles, the 30-metre intervals between them and the six- to nine-inch curbs separating the right-of-way from vehicle traffic on St. Clair, the report warns there is a risk that 42-foot-long fire trucks could damage their tires, sheer off their mirrors, scrape their sides – even flip over or collide head on with streetcars.
“The TTC ROW as constructed on St. Clair Ave. W. is not useable by Toronto Fire Services for emergency response,†the report states. “There is no doubt that there will be delays in emergency vehicle responses on St. Clair Ave. W.â€
Bill Stewart, Toronto’s Fire Chief, endorsed the report’s findings while in the same breath seeking to reassure the public.
“Certainly from my perspective the report is factual,†Chief Stewart said in interview. “But I’ll make it very clear, St. Clair’s a safe street. We’re going to continue to respond to the residents as we’ve always done.â€
He said he hoped to sit down with city officials to discuss the issues and possible solutions.
The fire, police and ambulance were involved in the project consultation process from the beginning and signed off on the deisgn, noted TTC chair Adam Giambrone.
“My understanding is when they designed it they felt it was safe,†Mr. Giambrone, who is also the city councillor for Davenport, said. “Assessments change over time. What works today doesn’t necessarily work tomorrow… We need to make this work and these are the kinds of things that come up all the time and we’ll work with the Toronto fire department to make sure things are safe.â€
He stopped short of saying whether the poles would be reconfigured on the already completed portion from Yonge St. to just beyond Bathurst St. or if construction might be halted on the continuing phases westward to just past Keele St.
Mr. Palacio (Davenport) said his constituents are “up in arms†but noted the design of the St. Clair streetcar lanes has implications for all Torontonians.
“This is a prototype that we’re creating for other exclusive right-of-ways across the city,†he said. “It’s a design flaw in my opinion.â€
Councillor Frances Nunziata (York South-Weston) was incredulous that such a problem could arise despite extensive consultation on the project.
“They realized once it was built ‘Geez, we have a problem here.’ So somebody goofed somewhere,†she said. “That’s the only thing I can assume. Because if they knew about it, it shouldn’t have been built."
National Post
ahanes@nationalpost.com
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/...ght-of-way-under-fire-by-fire-department.aspx
_________________________________________________________________
So what is it exactly? That there will be delays, but it won't matter? What's the point of this fuzz then, exactly? As to Cesar Palacio - I think his intentions are patently clear.
AoD
Hall Monitor: St. Clair streetcar right-of-way under fire... by fire department
Posted: June 18, 2008, 5:13 PM by Allison Hanes
TTC, Hall Monitor, St. Clair W., street car right-of-way
The much-maligned St. Clair streetcar right-of-way has been under fire from local residents virtually since its inception. But now a fire department report has validated some of their initial concerns – suggesting that the placement of the poles down the centre of the dedicated transit line make it too narrow for fire engines to navigate and thus could cause delays in emergency response times.
“Our concerns have been vindicated by this report… but it’s not a pleasant feeling to be vindicated,†said Margaret Smith, chair of Save Our St. Clair, a grassroots group that has spent years countering the 6.7-kilometre, $95-million project. “I would much rather have been wrong than to be in this situation today.â€
The two-month-old report was made public yesterday by city councillor Cesar Palacio (Davenport) another avid opponent, who posted in on his web site. He said it was drafted in response to a series of questions he asked last fall.
"It’s a design flaw in my opinion," Mr. Palacio said. "The centre poles that have been built will be an impediment to the fire trucks, where the vehicles can be damaged or they can flip over… even they go as far to say that a head-on collision with the TTC may happen."
Due to the central row of poles, the 30-metre intervals between them and the six- to nine-inch curbs separating the right-of-way from vehicle traffic on St. Clair, the report warns there is a risk that 42-foot-long fire trucks could damage their tires, sheer off their mirrors, scrape their sides – even flip over or collide head on with streetcars.
“The TTC ROW as constructed on St. Clair Ave. W. is not useable by Toronto Fire Services for emergency response,†the report states. “There is no doubt that there will be delays in emergency vehicle responses on St. Clair Ave. W.â€
Bill Stewart, Toronto’s Fire Chief, endorsed the report’s findings while in the same breath seeking to reassure the public.
“Certainly from my perspective the report is factual,†Chief Stewart said in interview. “But I’ll make it very clear, St. Clair’s a safe street. We’re going to continue to respond to the residents as we’ve always done.â€
He said he hoped to sit down with city officials to discuss the issues and possible solutions.
The fire, police and ambulance were involved in the project consultation process from the beginning and signed off on the deisgn, noted TTC chair Adam Giambrone.
“My understanding is when they designed it they felt it was safe,†Mr. Giambrone, who is also the city councillor for Davenport, said. “Assessments change over time. What works today doesn’t necessarily work tomorrow… We need to make this work and these are the kinds of things that come up all the time and we’ll work with the Toronto fire department to make sure things are safe.â€
He stopped short of saying whether the poles would be reconfigured on the already completed portion from Yonge St. to just beyond Bathurst St. or if construction might be halted on the continuing phases westward to just past Keele St.
Mr. Palacio (Davenport) said his constituents are “up in arms†but noted the design of the St. Clair streetcar lanes has implications for all Torontonians.
“This is a prototype that we’re creating for other exclusive right-of-ways across the city,†he said. “It’s a design flaw in my opinion.â€
Councillor Frances Nunziata (York South-Weston) was incredulous that such a problem could arise despite extensive consultation on the project.
“They realized once it was built ‘Geez, we have a problem here.’ So somebody goofed somewhere,†she said. “That’s the only thing I can assume. Because if they knew about it, it shouldn’t have been built."
National Post
ahanes@nationalpost.com
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/...ght-of-way-under-fire-by-fire-department.aspx
_________________________________________________________________
So what is it exactly? That there will be delays, but it won't matter? What's the point of this fuzz then, exactly? As to Cesar Palacio - I think his intentions are patently clear.
AoD
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why don't they just make the rest of the row a bit wider or not use center poles?
Jonny5
Senior Member
I saw a fire truck on the ROW yesterday. It was going west from Yonge street. Once it reached the area with centre poles it drove off the ROW and back into regular traffic. I noticed at that time that they did this very gingerly, taking about 20 seconds to drive off the ROW.
On other St. Clair issues...
St. Clair West station seems to be under construction again. There are trenches dug out about a foot deep along the tracks and expansion joints. Temporary covers are placed on top of the trenches during the day so that the buses can drive on them, very noisily.
All three spare streetcars are in use now. Maintenance crews are on site working on the three disabled cars parked at Vaughan. I noticed one bus was drafted to run the St. Clair to St. Clair West route this morning. Perhaps there is another disabled car parked somewhere else I didn't notice.
On other St. Clair issues...
St. Clair West station seems to be under construction again. There are trenches dug out about a foot deep along the tracks and expansion joints. Temporary covers are placed on top of the trenches during the day so that the buses can drive on them, very noisily.
All three spare streetcars are in use now. Maintenance crews are on site working on the three disabled cars parked at Vaughan. I noticed one bus was drafted to run the St. Clair to St. Clair West route this morning. Perhaps there is another disabled car parked somewhere else I didn't notice.
fiendishlibrarian
Active Member
One or both of the firehouses in the area (Yorkville and Balmoral) seem to be getting new Volvo fire trucks that are much narrower than the trucks they've been currently using, so this may all be a moot point very soon. I've seen them on a couple of calls recently in my area, and they really do take up much less room than the other equipment. Very sharp-looking vehicles, with a unique-sounding siren.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
Smaller trucks are the key. Maybe dangling the "smaller trucks = cheaper trucks = possibly more of them" carrot might win over the department.
Mustapha
Senior Member
As already posted, fire trucks come in many sizes. It's good to hear of the new Volvo trucks. Most calls seem to be for medical emergencies, it seems to me. Anyone here knowledgeable as to why they send fire trucks out to assist someone who has collapsed/fallen ill/with no fire to be seen anywhere??