Scarborough-Malvern LRT

[Rainforest]

Rainforest

I'm wondering. If the city chooses the Highway 401-Neilson Road alignment for the SRT extension, then there would be no need to bring this line north of Sheppard.

Moreover, even if the SRT extension crosses Sheppard at Markham Rd, it will bring more than enough capacity to Malvern Town Centre and hence another LRT line does not need to go there.

The Sheppard LRT going east to Meadowvale is questionable as well, will be overbuilt for the area's demand. The plan for the north-eastern corner should be reconsidered.

One option is to end the Eglinton-Kingston LRT at UTSC, and the Sheppard LRT at the SRT station on Sheppard, serving the rest of area with buses.

Another option is to combine the Sheppard and Eglinton-Kingston lines, so that a single arc-shaped route runs from the Sheppard subway terminus east to Morningside, south to UTSC and Lawrence, then loops west to Kennedy subway via Kingston and Eglinton. That would create additional travel possibilities within Scarborough, and hence the patronage of the north-eastern section will be higher.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Whichever alignment they pick, ridership will be laughably low north of Kingston.

I think that combining lines and looping lines is a bad idea unless significant numbers of people are actually riding across the combined lines or riding around the loops. Unnecessarily long lines can mask inefficiency through sheer total ridership figures. The TTC cannot manage the length of its current streetcar lines...a route that makes turns through mixed traffic as many times as the Morningside route has trouble written all over it.

 

[canrocks]

It'll be Tranfer City for many years to come I'm afraid. There's no one-seat ride from MCC to downtown either.

http://www.gotransit.com/publicroot...&direction=0&day=1&page=4&New=&station=&zone=


Why do people insist on wanting to take trips that are too long for their modes of transit?

Riding a subway from MCC to Union would take forever! There's no practical reason why that would ever be built!

This whole Eglinton LRT silliness is the same thing. Who would want to ride that from Scarborough to the Airport when you can take a GO bus via Yorkdale, or, eventually train, via Union?

 

[Rainforest]

Rainforest

This whole Eglinton LRT silliness is the same thing. Who would want to ride that from Scarborough to the Airport when you can take a GO bus via Yorkdale, or, eventually train, via Union?

The Eglinton LRT will not be particularly handy for that kind of trip. However, neither of the above options is a good alternative.

The Yorkdale to Pearson GO bus runs once in an hour most of the day (around 30 min at peak). Scarborough to Yorkdale is a frequent GO service, but most of passengers will need to take a local bus to STC first.

Similarly, how long will it take to get from Scarborough to Union? Bus to a GO station, then Lakeshore GO train, then Blue 22. Travel time adds up, and do not forget the triple fare.

 

[ShonTron]

GO Transit has an intra-municipal bus that only does Square One-YYZ, with half of them also going to Richmond Hill (which is in GO's mandate). Actually, I wouldn't think it would be a bad idea to double-up on the Brampton Airport Local service via Pearson from York Mills by having 20-30 minute service from YYZ to STC, especially to offer connections to Durham. Especially as Brampton Transit is ready to muscle in and offer its own airport express, which unlike GO, would be cheaper and offer free transfers to other BT routes and MT.

 

[Dan416]

http://www.gotransit.com/publicroot...&direction=0&day=1&page=4&New=&station=&zone=


Why do people insist on wanting to take trips that are too long for their modes of transit?

Riding a subway from MCC to Union would take forever! There's no practical reason why that would ever be built!

This whole Eglinton LRT silliness is the same thing. Who would want to ride that from Scarborough to the Airport when you can take a GO bus via Yorkdale, or, eventually train, via Union?

Riding a subway from downtown to MCC would not take forever. You do realize it would be FASTER than taking the bus AND subway? How can it make ANY sense to say it'll take "forever" when it's actually cutting travel times and SOOOO many people make the trip already!

That said I'd have no problem with regional rail from MCC to downtown. But I think we need both a subway along Dundas and REX straight to Union.

 

[drum118]

It takes 2 hours to go from STC to MCC at a cost of $5.50 cash or $4.70 or less using a GTA pass. Require 2 transfers. I know this for a fact as I do it a numbers of time yearly.

Taking a GO bus cost $6.20/$5.68 as well does not meet your travel time. It about a 120 minute ride assuming you do not get caught up in traffic. Buses run every 30 minute. Require 1 or no transfers. Have done this once.

If you ran along the Eglinton Subway to Sq One, travel time will be shorter. Will require 2-3 transfers

Once the 403 BRT is built, travel time maybe faster depending what taking place from Kipling to the Renforth station area for traffic until an ROW is built for this section.

Trying to do any other way using GO will be longer and cost more.

 

[EnviroTO]

Why do people insist on wanting to take trips that are too long for their modes of transit?

Riding a subway from MCC to Union would take forever! There's no practical reason why that would ever be built!

This whole Eglinton LRT silliness is the same thing. Who would want to ride that from Scarborough to the Airport when you can take a GO bus via Yorkdale, or, eventually train, via Union?

The benefits of continual routes is not the benefit of taking it from one end to the other. The benefit is that it serves more trips without transfers. It is a small percentage of the riders that would take the Bloor-Danforth from Kipling to Kennedy and an even smaller number would take the Yonge-University line from Finch to Downsview, but between all stations on both lines there are a significant number of riders and all those riders would have been forced to transfer. There is a significant number of riders that remain on the subway at Union station or Yonge/Bloor.

 

[wyliepoon]

This whole Eglinton LRT silliness is the same thing. Who would want to ride that from Scarborough to the Airport when you can take a GO bus via Yorkdale, or, eventually train, via Union?

I bet, given the large immigrant population in Scarborough who tries to save money at every opportunity, a lot of people in Scarborough would take the LRT to the airport if the current flat fare is charged.

 

[Dan416]

I bet, given the large immigrant population in Scarborough who tries to save money at every opportunity, a lot of people in Scarborough would take the LRT to the airport if the current flat fare is charged.

Not just in Scarborough, people are trying to save money in Mississauga too. And Toronto. No one wants to spend more money than necessary.

 

[drum118]

It's nice to hear that the Cherry St design is been look at for this line.

I love the route for Military shown on the board.

I understand the line will dip down just west of the campus and will require a bridge to go over Ellesmere.

One local resident love the idea of blocking off side streets and forcing drivers to do a u-turn as it would cut down drivers using local roads to get to Eglinton or Lawrence. It will happen one way, but not for the return trip.

I was at Thursday meeting as I had meetings on both nights and caught the tail end.

Turn out was small and most support the plan from what I heard.

 

[kEiThZ]

My folks live in Morningside Heights, I grew up in Malvern and I think this RT routing is definitely a waste of taxpayer's dollars.

With respect to transportation, the Malvern community will always prioritize the SRT extension, and east-west routes far more. The only reason people use north-south routes, is because they are relatively convenient and fast to get downtown. If the East-West routes were more comfortable and faster, the SRT would be out of business (less transfers). An upgraded SRT and a Sheppard East LRT will mean that the Malvern LRT will be useless. The money should have been spent turning Malvern Town Centre into a local mini-hub. That way a short bus ride would have connected anyone in Malvern to the RT for quick trips downtown.

But if they are going to build it.....then the routinng definitely needs to be changed. They should be running it north, up morningside, to join up with a future Finch East line...or better yet, past Finch right into Morningside Heights.....possibly terminating at Morningside and McNicoll. The portion along Sheppard, and up Neilson is a ridiculous waste.

 

[JPG]

At the recent Scarborough/Malvern LRT meeting, I spoke with an IBI consultant.

They are fully aware that most of the trip generators for this route occur
south of Sheppard...in fact from the UTSC south. The route into Malvern (Sheppard/Nielson) will not produce nearly as many trips.

The consultant indicated that the routing north of Sheppard will depend on a number of factors, including the SRT extension and possibly extending the LRT towards York Region (these are preliminary discussions, but discussions between TTC and York are definitely going on for this route).

One of the main reasons that the S/M LRT needs to go to at least Sheppard is that an LRT yard is being planned in the Conlins Road/Sheppard area which will be shared by the Sheppard and S/M lines. One could argue that non-revenue trackage be constructed between Ellesmere and Sheppard on Morningside, but I believe that connecting the two lines is important for network building.

I also agree with Keithz - assuming the SRT extension is approved to Malvern Towne Centre, why not extend the S/M LRT straight up Morningside to McNicoll...give the residents of Morningside Heights a decent connection to the city. It's also close to the York Region border. The beauty of LRT is that you can mix up train lengths and frequencies as well as have separate branches so that route capacity can be easily adjusted based on demand. One branch could run from Kennedy to UTSC and the other right up to McNicoll. This is more of a service planning issue and from what I've heard, TTC Service Planning hasn't weighed in on any of the LRT EA's so far.

I lived in the deep cavernous recesses of Scarborough once, and I feel for those people. The S/M line will be fantastic for residents of east and northeast Scarborough who are used to spending 30-45 minutes on a bus before ever reaching reasonably frequent rail service.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I lived in the deep cavernous recesses of Scarborough once, and I feel for those people. The S/M line will be fantastic for residents of east and northeast Scarborough who are used to spending 30-45 minutes on a bus before ever reaching reasonably frequent rail service.

There's other ways to get these people to a fast and frequent rail line without building a billion dollar streetcar line to nowhere. Bus routes can be rejigged, Rocket/express buses can be added for very little money, there's the RT extension, there's one existing GO line (the proposed streetcar line will run right past Guildwood and Eglinton stations) and one proposed GO line (possibly having a stop right at Finch & Morningside), etc. If the Danforth subway is extended to STC, LRT can branch out from there to Malvern and UTSC, saving time and money.

 

[kEiThZ]

I think the emotional aspect of this has to be acknowledged. Scarberian, I can understand why you feel this is a waste of money, and I share those views. But there are a lot of voters that feel Scarborough (and Malvern) in particular is constantly on the chopping block when it comes to TTC service. And quite a few feel this is particuarly because Malvern is a relatively lower income neighbourhood. The perception is probably compounded by the fact that numerous people do use transit just to get around Malvern.

This is a problem of the city's making. If they had prioritized the RT extension over the Sheppard stubway, years ago, Malvern community planning would have been different and the animosity from its residents would have been non-existent. Now the residents won't accept anything less than some form of rail after years of being over-promised and under-delivered wrt bus services.

This is how democracy works. From the Malvern point of view, the city chose its favourites (North York with the stubway) and now its Malvern's turn to shine. If anyone wants to pooh-pooh the LRT lines into Malvern, they had better have a damn good back-up plan to sell over there.....and one that's credible. Till then politicians promising anything less than rail to Malvern should bring hired goons with them....