News   Apr 26, 2024
Galleria on the Park Soon to Welcome First Residents of Masterplanned Community
 412     0 
News   Apr 26, 2024
News Roundup for April 26, 2024
 338     0 
News   Apr 26, 2024
How It's Going
 534     0 

Metrolinx: Bombardier Flexity Freedom & Alstom Citadis Spirit LRVs

I don't know why you guys even bring up the ION and and the possibility Alstom Citiadis. The ION isn't a metrolinx project. They ordered their cars like the TTC with streetcars, designed and implemented their system for them and don't want to spend more money on another fleet. There's no point of testing one on the ION.

As for when Metrolinx will get it's first car remains a mystery. It's not likely to be the end of this year. The ION would had opened by then (if BBD continues to make their current schedule). I expect they'll be delivered in the same time frame as the expected Freedom LRVs (2019-21). They are better off getting Finch West built and have some tracks by 2019 since they want to use it there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rbt
Steve X said:
I don't know why you guys even bring up the ION and and the possibility Alstom Citiadis. The ION isn't a metrolinx project. They ordered their cars like the TTC with streetcars, designed and implemented their system for them and don't want to spend more money on another fleet. There's no point of testing one on the ION.

As for when Metrolinx will get it's first car remains a mystery. It's not likely to be the end of this year. The ION would had opened by then (if BBD continues to make their current schedule). I expect they'll be delivered in the same time frame as the expected Freedom LRVs (2019-21). They are better off getting Finch West built and have some tracks by 2019 since they want to use it there.
Click to expand...
Exactly Ion is a separate project from the Metrolinx ones they just bought cars off of Metrolinx and when Metrolinx got behind on testing and except in the prototypes Bombardier negotiated with them. IF they didn't want the cars from Bombardier I don't think they would have charged them the same change feres as they would to Metrolinx.
 
Well some in K/W are about as prescient as Toronto councillors:
[...]
Metrolinx's decision to file notice to terminate its Bombardier contract will not affect the production or delivery of the Ion LRT trains, regional Coun. Tom Galloway tells CBC News.

Though the Region of Waterloo piggybacked on the Metrolinx contract, they are separate legal documents, Galloway said Friday morning.

"When we say we piggybacked it, we did it at the very same time Metrolinx did, we used all the same terms and conditions and the big thing of course is we were able to benefit by using their price," Galloway said.

The legal action is a way for Metrolinx to put pressure on Bombardier, said Galloway, who doubts Metrolinx will follow through on its threat.
[...]
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/metrolinx-ion-lrt-waterloo-bombardier-1.3836267
 
steveintoronto said:
Well some in K/W are about as prescient as Toronto councillors:
[...]
Metrolinx's decision to file notice to terminate its Bombardier contract will not affect the production or delivery of the Ion LRT trains, regional Coun. Tom Galloway tells CBC News.

Though the Region of Waterloo piggybacked on the Metrolinx contract, they are separate legal documents, Galloway said Friday morning.

"When we say we piggybacked it, we did it at the very same time Metrolinx did, we used all the same terms and conditions and the big thing of course is we were able to benefit by using their price," Galloway said.

The legal action is a way for Metrolinx to put pressure on Bombardier, said Galloway, who doubts Metrolinx will follow through on its threat.
[...]
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/metrolinx-ion-lrt-waterloo-bombardier-1.3836267
Click to expand...
I think this all comes down to Metrolinx want to hide their incompetence and the delays that were caused by the consat flip flopping of Toronto City council on the various LRT projects. Bombardier is a convenient scapegoat for them just like how the construction company doing the work on the bride ta Pickering go train station was. Bombardier is only convenient because they are relevant in everyone's minds because of the problems with late deliveries of the TTC streetcars. Most poel don;'t even know that there were problems with the Toronto Rockets ery on or care about them now. Most likely by 2019 no one will care except for a few pole about how long it took for the new Streetcars to arrive as by then we will probably have another delay to the crosstown caused by Metrolinx but blamed on someone else.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
I think this all comes down to Metrolinx want to hide their incompetence and the delays that were caused by the consat flip flopping of Toronto City council on the various LRT projects. Bombardier is a convenient scapegoat for them just like how the construction company doing the work on the bride ta Pickering go train station was. Bombardier is only convenient because they are relevant in everyone's minds because of the problems with late deliveries of the TTC streetcars. Most poel don;'t even know that there were problems with the Toronto Rockets ery on or care about them now. Most likely by 2019 no one will care except for a few pole about how long it took for the new Streetcars to arrive as by then we will probably have another delay to the crosstown caused by Metrolinx but blamed on someone else.
Click to expand...
All new vehicles are likely going to experience teething issues. Maybe we shouldn't buy Siemens cause of all their door issues they have on the new Calgary S200 LRVs. The TR's are fine now. So are the new GO cab cars.
 
Steve X said:
All new vehicles are likely going to experience teething issues. Maybe we shouldn't buy Siemens cause of all their door issues they have on the new Calgary S200 LRVs. The TR's are fine now. So are the new GO cab cars.
Click to expand...
Exactly it may not matter in the end where the cars come from any manufacturer can have problems, with anything along the way. I just think that Metrolinx is jumping the gun because they don't want to be wrong and caught trying to explain why they aren't on time with their projects.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
Exactly it may not matter in the end where the cars come from any manufacturer can have problems, with anything along the way. I just think that Metrolinx is jumping the gun because they don't want to be wrong and caught trying to explain why they aren't on time with their projects.
Click to expand...
We can't say these Alstom Citadis Spirits wouldn't run into issues either. They're still testing and haven't been put into service yet. Door issues don't come from testing, they come from passengers jamming and plying the doors open when they're closing.

We don't even know if they'll deliver all of them on time either. All we know is they delivered a working prototype which is a bit further than BBD. ML won't be the guinea pig this time. It would be really funny if Alstom messes up this order too. Then ML will be in for a real shit show.
 
Steve X said:
We can't say these Alstom Citadis Spirits wouldn't run into issues either. They're still testing and haven't been put into service yet. Door issues don't come from testing, they come from passengers jamming and plying the doors open when they're closing.

We don't even know if they'll deliver all of them on time either. All we know is they delivered a working prototype which is a bit further than BBD. ML won't be the guinea pig this time. It would be really funny if Alstom messes up this order too. Then ML will be in for a real shit show.
Click to expand...
The first one rolled off the line almost a year ago, and on-line testing started six months ago. There's every reason to believe that Ottawa's tranche will be delivered on time, and on budget. There's an even more severe penalty for late deliveries for the Spirits than there is for the Flexities.

Your pessimism is noted, but not supported by the facts so far.
 
steveintoronto said:
The legal action is a way for Metrolinx to put pressure on Bombardier, said Galloway, who doubts Metrolinx will follow through on its threat.
Click to expand...
Just in case the irony of his statement has been missed, ML certainly have followed through on their threat. Even with the court allowing BBD's injunction against immediate action to invoke the termination process, the 'emergency button' has been hit.
 
I remember reading how the then NEW CLRV streetcars were put into service on the LONG BRANCH (507) until the first snowfall. They salted the roads which resulted in having the salt water shorting out the CLRVs. They had to take all of them out service for repairs and alterations.

One reason for "winter testing" on the new streetcars and light rail vehicles.
 
syn said:
Metrolinx obviously isn't perfect, but I find it hard to blame them for Bombardier's continuing woes.
Click to expand...

Indeed. After reading that recent Star investigation "Not In Service" http://projects.thestar.com/bombardier-ttc/ I don't find Metrolinx's actions a remotely relevant factor to Bombardier's gross incompetence. For instance, did Metrolinx instruct the workers in Mexico to produce parts that were not within tolerances, and had to be sledgehammered forcefully into a vaguely correct shape to force an improper fit with other parts? I think not.
 
It seems far more likely to me that Citadis will run on non Crosstown lines, but it seems madness to me to build to tolerances other manufacturers of *30m* cars can't meet. Having lifting jacks customized to a specific tram seems like vendor lock in to me. Ontario light rail lines are built to "standard" voltages, vehicle widths and rail gauges and *should* have enough tolerance to be able to shop around as needed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kps
Steve X said:
We don't even know if they'll deliver all of them on time either. All we know is they delivered a working prototype which is a bit further than BBD. ML won't be the guinea pig this time. It would be really funny if Alstom messes up this order too. Then ML will be in for a real shit show.
Click to expand...
Actually Metrolinx will need to have it's own prototype as well unless they are somehow piggy backing on the Ottawa order and not making any changes to the vehicle themselves.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top