GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[BurlOak]

i live near milliken station, and im just curious, what exactly does grade separation mean? sorry for the amateur question.

Like a portion elevated over the road?

Grade separated means either the railway goes over the road, or the road goes over the railway - as long as the crossing of the cars and trains can happen without gates and flashing lights.

 

[Northern Light]

adeel

i live near milliken station, and im just curious, what exactly does grade separation mean? sorry for the amateur question.

Like a portion elevated over the road?

No bad questions, that's how you learn!

Grade Separation means separating the 2 modes from each other. Literally at-grade means level. As in the road and tracks meet each other at-grade (or on the same level)

Grade separating means the 2 modes (rail and road) will be at different levels.

For a whole host of reasons it is very rare that the track (rail) will ever change grade.

So it is the road that will move.

The only question is whether the road is bridged over the tracks, or goes under them.

I'm sure the EA (Environmental Assessment) from a few years ago answer which was the preferred choice here, but I don't remember just at the moment.

 

[drum118]

March 14 Willowbrook

 

[adeel]

Grade separated means either the railway goes over the road, or the road goes over the railway - as long as the crossing of the cars and trains can happen without gates and flashing lights.

No bad questions, that's how you learn!

Grade Separation means separating the 2 modes from each other. Literally at-grade means level. As in the road and tracks meet each other at-grade (or on the same level)

Grade separating means the 2 modes (rail and road) will be at different levels.

For a whole host of reasons it is very rare that the track (rail) will ever change grade.

So it is the road that will move.

The only question is whether the road is bridged over the tracks, or goes under them.

I'm sure the EA (Environmental Assessment) from a few years ago answer which was the preferred choice here, but I don't remember just at the moment.

Thanks guys for th explanation. So right now they are both at grade, since they are on the same level.

Im curious to know, what would the grade separation look like...im just trying to visualize what a bridge or something would look like, but anything I can visualize just looks strange lol

 

[drum118]

Thanks guys for th explanation. So right now they are both at grade, since they are on the same level.

Im curious to know, what would the grade separation look like...im just trying to visualize what a bridge or something would look like, but anything I can visualize just looks strange lol

Look at post 619 of this thread and you will see it.

Here you have tracks going over the road, but it can be used for rail also in opposite arrangement with cars using the bridge and train going under it.

 

[BurlOak]

Look at post 619 of this thread and you will see it.

Here you have tracks going over the road, but it can be used for rail also in opposite arrangement with cars using the bridge and train going under it.

Here is a recent rail over road (sometimes called a subway) done in Burlington. The train tracks had to be shifted sideways while the bridge was being constructed, and then the track alignment was restored. The clearance for vehicles is typically about 5m and the bridge beams are about 1 to 1.5m deep. This example has a separate tunnel for the sidewalks. Other cases have the sidewalk at road level, or on a bench perched above the road (since the sidewalk does not need the full 5m clearance).

http://maps.google.ca/?ll=43.399928...=ziW1N2Uxib9bfnZv453VPQ&cbp=12,304.2,,0,-2.97

http://maps.google.ca/?ll=43.455674...d=eAXR3XFHAAIrQ1CnVSAhBQ&cbp=12,342.85,,1,0.1

I did not have time to find a good example of a road over a rail. I chose Kinston Road. It shows that the clearance to the railway is higher (over 7m), and the beam depths of the bridge may be marginally less than the "subway" example.

http://maps.google.ca/?ll=43.754822...=S-jEIhpdeF0kcXb79Kf3qA&cbp=12,160.42,,0,-0.2

The "subway" is more expensive, since the railway must be re-aligned during construction. It is probably more user friendly since the length of the approach ramps (for cars and pedestrains) are shorter (since the clearance to vehicles is less than clearance to trains) and the bridge is not as physically prominant since it is built below the surrounding ground level.

 

[GTS]

Thanks for all the talk and info.- the idea about a pedestrian walkway from Pacific Mall to the Milliken station would be great for us commuters as well as the business at that mall. I didn't know they had plans already for the Steeles crossing near Pacific Mall. Drawing up plans for that costs money as well- so they must be serious. Who would pay for it- TO, York Region or the Province (since GO is provincial) but York Region and the City of Toronto would greatly benifit from such a project. Maybe all three gov'ts (2 regional and one provincial) chip in?

 

[unimaginative2]

The station used to be north of Steeles, which made for a more convenient connection with Pacific Mall/Market Vilage but couldn't accommodate 10-car trains. I wonder what happened to that big Market Village redevelopment...I shall have to investigate.

 

[adeel]

Look at post 619 of this thread and you will see it.

Here you have tracks going over the road, but it can be used for rail also in opposite arrangement with cars using the bridge and train going under it.

Here is a recent rail over road (sometimes called a subway) done in Burlington. The train tracks had to be shifted sideways while the bridge was being constructed, and then the track alignment was restored. The clearance for vehicles is typically about 5m and the bridge beams are about 1 to 1.5m deep. This example has a separate tunnel for the sidewalks. Other cases have the sidewalk at road level, or on a bench perched above the road (since the sidewalk does not need the full 5m clearance).

http://maps.google.ca/?ll=43.399928...=ziW1N2Uxib9bfnZv453VPQ&cbp=12,304.2,,0,-2.97

http://maps.google.ca/?ll=43.455674...d=eAXR3XFHAAIrQ1CnVSAhBQ&cbp=12,342.85,,1,0.1

I did not have time to find a good example of a road over a rail. I chose Kinston Road. It shows that the clearance to the railway is higher (over 7m), and the beam depths of the bridge may be marginally less than the "subway" example.

http://maps.google.ca/?ll=43.754822...=S-jEIhpdeF0kcXb79Kf3qA&cbp=12,160.42,,0,-0.2

The "subway" is more expensive, since the railway must be re-aligned during construction. It is probably more user friendly since the length of the approach ramps (for cars and pedestrains) are shorter (since the clearance to vehicles is less than clearance to trains) and the bridge is not as physically prominant since it is built below the surrounding ground level.

Ahh ok, I understand what it would look like now. It seems like quite an undertaking...no wonder the Agincourt stn grade separation is like a $50M project.

It seems to me that it would be easier for the road to dip underneath the tracks.

Thanks for all the talk and info.- the idea about a pedestrian walkway from Pacific Mall to the Milliken station would be great for us commuters as well as the business at that mall. I didn't know they had plans already for the Steeles crossing near Pacific Mall. Drawing up plans for that costs money as well- so they must be serious. Who would pay for it- TO, York Region or the Province (since GO is provincial) but York Region and the City of Toronto would greatly benifit from such a project. Maybe all three gov'ts (2 regional and one provincial) chip in?

It does seem like a natural thing to do. I would imagine/hope that it would be completed at the same time as the grade separation. Further, it seems to me that getting this done around the same time of the market village redevelopment would make alot of sense.

The station used to be north of Steeles, which made for a more convenient connection with Pacific Mall/Market Vilage but couldn't accommodate 10-car trains. I wonder what happened to that big Market Village redevelopment...I shall have to investigate.

There is a thread about it here somewhere. I believe they issued some new renders. If i remember correctly, it is mostly sold out.

 

[canarob]

Here is the thread: http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...mp-Kennedy-Remington-Group-2x-35s-Kohn)/page7

In a news release they stated they'd have a GO connection, so hopefully there's a walkway alongside the bridge for the grade separation (this would seem easy enough).

 

[vegeta_skyline]

There are no other rail to road grade separations in the 10-year capital plan that I can see.

Whelps, Steeles & Kennedy would be the 5th and 6th grade separations to be completed in recent history for that line(after 14th, Enterprise, the CN York sub and Sheppard).

But that would still leave 28 more to go...

(from south to north)
Danforth, Progress, Havendale, Huntingwood, Finch, McNicoll, Passmore, Denison, Highway 7, Eureka, Main, Kennedy(again), McCowen, Sinder, Main(different one), 16th, Bur Oak, Castlemore(new), Major Mac, Elgin Mills, 9th line, 19th, Reeves(new), Hoover Park(new), Main(popular name for a street huh), Millard, Bethesda & 10th(close enough to do as one)
+ 2 more pedestrian crossings.

It has by far the highest 'density' of level crossing of any GO line.

In any case most of the attention is on the Weston sub right now with; Strachan, the West Toronto grade separation (CP North Toronto sub and Old Weston road), Dennison and King and Church all being grade separated (John st turning into a pedestrain overpass). With work on Carlingview to follow suit very shortly(http://www.metrolinx.com/tenders/en/tenders.aspx).

 

[canarob]

(from south to north)
Danforth, Progress, Havendale, Huntingwood, Finch, McNicoll, Passmore, Denison, Highway 7, Eureka, Main, Kennedy(again), McCowen, Sinder, Main(different one), 16th, Bur Oak, Castlemore(new), Major Mac, Elgin Mills, 9th line, 19th, Reeves(new), Hoover Park(new), Main(popular name for a street huh), Millard, Bethesda & 10th(close enough to do as one)
+ 2 more pedestrian crossings.

Looking at the list, it would really make sense to start with the busiest crossings (Finch, Highway 7, the various Main Streets, etc) and then start from the south and work north. The at-grade crossings in Stouffville or on small street in Markham like Snider aren't as much of a priority of course.

If the entire line was grade separated, could speeds be increased? With all the stops, I can't imagine things could be sped up all that much but every extra minute counts.

 

[DSC]

The 2012 construction program for the Union Station corridor is available at http://www.slna.ca/slna-news-pdfs/GO-2012.pdf

 

[drum118]

March 20
Erindale Parking Structure

 

[Dan416]

Thanks for the update. So there's going to be an entrance off Burnhamthorpe now right? Will they change Erindale's address to a Burnhamthorpe address?