Bagless grocery shopping? (Loblaws Milton)

[ShonTron]

IIRC the city will be launching a pilot project for Green Bins in multi-unit apartments and condos within the next year... I'm looking forward to it.
In the meantime though, if you live in a condo, why don't you work with your condo board to acquire several composters?

That's excellent.

Using plastic bags for garbage isn't the best option either. Ideally, we would stop using plastic bags to go to the grocery store, and yes, we would be without grocery bags for garbage use, but there are alternatives such as biodegradable plastic bags that you can purchase for garbage. In a perfect world, stores would foot the cost for biodegradable bags, and then the whole fabric/recycled plastic enviro-bag would not even be needed any more. There are cons to biodegradable plastic, but finding a solution to those is just like finding the solution to the non-biodegradable plastic bags that are causing problems like the ones we're talking about in this thread.

That would be an ideal solution, even if the additional cost was factored into the price of my shopping. This should be the way government should implement it. While I think switching bags is a great idea, you've got to make it easy enough for people to adapt, people like myself who get off the bus (no car trunk to store grocery store-issued resuable bags), do a small shopping and walk home from there, and at least use the bags for some other purpose.

For example, the switch from incandesent to more energy-saving bulbs now makes sense with the variety of energy saving bulbs, which have come down in price. There's lots of carrots out there for replacing appliances and ACs, and few sticks. There must be carrots for going bagless first, and ways for different people to use it (like carless persons).

As for Loblaws, I still see it hypocritical as it is a brand new, pedestrian unfriendly big box which is "innovative" by being bagless. That's what pisses me off.

 

[AndreaPalladio]

But you can put all of Loblaws very innovative green and organic products into your non-plastic bag. That's the real innovation - no major retailer offers the variety of green and organic products that Loblaws does.

 

[RJR123]

True, compared to other retailers they seem to have a pretty good selection of green products. God Bless the Westons.

 

[vistaway]

I was at the new store a few times today. I was pleased to see that they have two bike racks (one at each entrance) and I actually had to really work to get mine in there they were so full.

Anyway, the bagless concept seemed to be working fine. They had lots of greenboxes and PC bags (both on sale, with the bags at $0.50 each) around. There were greeters to explain the concept as you entered. The checkouts were very nice - no candy, no mags, nothing for sale, and the belt was twice as long as normal.

The store itself is a huge departure from the existing RCSS stores. It's all white with yellow highlights (very Loblaws 80s retro!). All signage is in the same Helvetica-style font in light grey. The clothing dept stretches nearly the entire depth of the right side of the store - the same layout as Target. The housewares and tablewares fixtures looked like they were plucked out of a Crate and Barrel. The grocery section felt like a Tesco. Overall, the entire store felt more 'upscale'.

I think they can make this bagless concept work. They are already installing bagless express lanes at other stores, apparently.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

lets just hope that people aren't throwing away cadmium batteries in those biodegradable bags. kinda defeats the purpose.

i make this point since most stuff you throw in the garbage bag, if you sort properly, is not organic and' can't be recycled.

but....

for bagging leaves and organic matter that decomposes, thumbs up!

even the mafia will love these. when they bury their corpses, no need to take them out of the bag for fear of preservation

 

[ShonTron]

I was at the new store a few times today. I was pleased to see that they have two bike racks (one at each entrance) and I actually had to really work to get mine in there they were so full.

How did you find the store getting to in terms of walking or biking to?

If they can make the bagless system work for those who don't own a car, and aren't coming directly from home, then I'll moderate my own opinions.

 

[Skeezix]

As for Loblaws, I still see it hypocritical as it is a brand new, pedestrian unfriendly big box which is "innovative" by being bagless. That's what pisses me off.

I don't see the problem. Sure, the store was designed for the automobile, and they sell lots of environmentally-unfriendly products (everything from Windex to dishwasher detergent is full of some pretty bad stuff), but I don't see the rationale of getting upset when they do take steps in the right direction. It's all about taking small steps. Retail will not be transformed overnight. The new Milton store was planned and approved a number of years ago. With the new PPS, Places to Grow and site plan controls in the Planning Act, new stores that in the planning stages today will increasingly be expected to meet green standards such as LEED, and restrictions on employment land conversions and urban boundary expansions will reduce the number of stores being built on pedestrian-remote, transit-unfriendly sites.

Sure, there's an irony that customers who drive an SUV to the store are going bagless. But I can't see the rationale in getting annoyed when they do take steps to reduce usage of a petroleum-based, non-biodegradable product. We need to demand more of them, of course, but congratulations to them on taking important steps in the right direction.

 

[vistaway]

How did you find the store getting to in terms of walking or biking to?

If they can make the bagless system work for those who don't own a car, and aren't coming directly from home, then I'll moderate my own opinions.

Not perfect, but better than 90% of the new retail being built in the suburbs. The store is part of a larger site that has 2 banks, an LCBO, 3-5 restaurants and smaller box retail. The site is next to the GO station, so one can exit the platform, cross the new internal city street (with lights and crosswalks) and be in the Superstore within 5 minutes.

The retail is pushed to the sidewalk all around the site, and while there is a 1-2m grade difference between the new sidewalk (actually a 2.5m all-purpose path) and the stores, they have installed well over a dozen pedestrian access points in addition to sidewalks at all vehicle entrances. The retail pod entrances all either face the street, or are directly adjacent (even the LCBO, which really surprised me). There are internal sidewalks throughout the site, but as much of it is not yet open, it's hard to tell how well they work. There seems to be much less parking than one would expect. Not sure what the ratios are, but they seem to be less than Mississauga.

I did see four people or groups of people walking to the store. Half were carrying their reusable bags. As I mentioned, the bike racks were full (I suspect many of the bikes belonged to employees, though). The site is really easy to get to - it's as central as the GO station, so it's an easy walk or ride for anyone living north of the tracks. South of the tracks is harder as many of the roads are under construction. All Milton buses start and end their routes at this site, so transit connections are as good as they get in this part of town (and Milton transit is free during the day, which should bring the mums and seniors in - the store also has a dietitian available for free consultations).

 

[ShonTron]

Hmmm.

I thought this was going in where Home Depot and Galaxy is, on Thompson Road, or where Wal-Mart is, both places are real sprawlholes. If it is next to the GO Station, that's not that bad, actually - if I lived there, I might take advantage of it - get off the train, do a quick shopping, and get out of the GO station once the madhouse of cars eases out. So if you drive to the GO station, it's the best place to do it - no need to make another trip or go out of your way.

Even the RCSS in Weston and Brampton are built close to the street at least. They have big parking lots (the Weston one has a garage), but behind or at the side of the building, not in front. The Brampton one is almost feasible to walk across to Shoppers World and the bus terminal there.

I'm still skeptical of the bagless thing though.

LCBO isn't bad for facing the street, so I'm not that surprised. Even the one at the Wilson big-box faces the street, with the parking lot beside. The Beer Store is far less "urban" I find.

 

[ShonTron]

Sure, there's an irony that customers who drive an SUV to the store are going bagless. But I can't see the rationale in getting annoyed when they do take steps to reduce usage of a petroleum-based, non-biodegradable product. We need to demand more of them, of course, but congratulations to them on taking important steps in the right direction.

Maybe "pissed off" are not the right words. Though if this is going to be done, it's got to be able to work for all shoppers - it's easier to do this if you drive a car, or like to do your shopping on a weekend, but for a busy person like me who does not drive, it doesn't work, and I don't see the accomodation. It's a good idea in principle, but so far half-baked and not thought out that well. There's other things that can certainly be done as well.

 

[AndreaPalladio]

I take my own bags and I walk to and from Loblaws. I don't see why you need to drive your own bags there.

 

[Skeezix]

Maybe "pissed off" are not the right words. Though if this is going to be done, it's got to be able to work for all shoppers - it's easier to do this if you drive a car, or like to do your shopping on a weekend, but for a busy person like me who does not drive, it doesn't work, and I don't see the accomodation. It's a good idea in principle, but so far half-baked and not thought out that well. There's other things that can certainly be done as well.

I do most of my food shopping by foot (Pape IGA, Sun Valley, Big Carrot), and a lot of my errands (food and otherwise) are on my way home from work. Using reusable bags is easy (a lot of the time I bring my lunch in one, so I have an empty one to bring home to use for errands -- I also keep a few in the office). I don't really see the connection between cars and reusable bags. I work really long hours and this has never presented a problem for me.

And plastic bags are nasty -- there is no getting around that fact. I'm puzzled why you believe getting rid of them is "half-baked".

As for "There's other things that can certainly be done as well" -- of course there are. Reducing usage of plastic bags will not "save" the earth. But pointing to other things (say, for example, all the toxins in the cleaning products sold by Loblaws) that present a problem is never a really good excuse for inaction on another front. If there are other things, then take steps in that direction as well. It's all about taking small steps on multiple fronts.

You've decided that the convenience of plastic bags justifies your continued usage of them. That's fine -- we've all been there. It's good to take steps towards reducing one's ecological footprint, but some steps that are nobrainers for some folks are harder for others (for example, I love incandescent Christmas lights, both indoors and outdoors, and am very reluctant to convert to LED lights, even though they are greener and cost a heck of a lot less to operate). But the key then is to actually do other "green" things in one's life as an alternative. You already take transit, so you are already several steps ahead of most of the population.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

I just thought of something -- how about a reusable bag/box deposit system like for bottles? A deposit is charged for each reusable bag or box at point of purchase... and you can either just bring it with you on your next trip and not have to pay the deposit again... or you can keep paying the deposit and horde them for a mass return. This would therefore solve the issue of "forgetting my bag", which I have done on many occasions.. I can; however, see an issue with the bags getting gross if people don't take care of it properly.

The deposit can't be as little as 5 cents though.. I can see people just throwing them out... but the actual cost of the bag would be good (1 dollar).

 

[ShonTron]

Yes! That would provide me with all the convienence I want, and the incentive to go 'green'. Or just have grocery stores use biodegradable bags instead of plastic.

I think the current implementation of "bagless" (not the idea itself) is "half-baked" because, unless Loblaw's is willing to do this, it leaves out possibilities of those who don't want (or unable) to carry around grocery bags all day if they don't drive, or who happen to forget them, like how you describe.

A 50 cent or $1 deposit would be enough.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

anybody have a contact with a grocery store giant that can pitch this for me?

too bad it's not really a money-making venture.. my student loans would sure appreciate it.