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YRT/Viva Construction Thread (Rapidways, Terminals)

I disagree. I frequently take GO because it's FASTER than MT/TTC.

This whole idea that riders don't care about speed has got to die, because it's completely untrue.

Of course if frequency is really poor, speed might not matter as much, but all things being equal, everyone will choose the faster option.

The idea that all riders care about speed needs to die. We're not talking about GO(regional) vs. MT/TTC (local).

By your logic, brampton residents would use GO to travel from downtown brampton to Bramalea City Centre instead of taking Brampton Transit because GO will be faster. Your logic is faulty. You're just looking at transit in a regional context. Of COURSE you would take GO to Union (I assume that's where you're going). I doubt you're going to use GO within Mississauga.

Enough with the speed obsession. Speed is a just one factor in a rider's overall trip. Widely spaced stops are not guaranteed to attract riders.
 
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Speed is important - especially with buses, since people hate stopping 20 times at stops that aren't theirs and chugging along in traffic with everyone else - but I agree it's not everything. All transit really needs to be connecting you to where you need to go efficiently. If the stops aren't right or the connections suck, speed drops. Of course, speed also costs.

If you live in between the proposed Scarborough subway stops, the "speed" of the train vs. LRT might not matter much if you have to take a local bus or walk to your destination, right? The rapidways are obviously SPEEDier than buses in mixed-traffic but Viva will have to do a lot of other things right for it to all come together. Hopefully they can.
 
Speed is important - especially with buses, since people hate stopping 20 times at stops that aren't theirs and chugging along in traffic with everyone else - but I agree it's not everything. All transit really needs to be connecting you to where you need to go efficiently. If the stops aren't right or the connections suck, speed drops. Of course, speed also costs.

I absolutely agree. Stops placed too closely together are just as bad as stops placed too far apart.

If you live in between the proposed Scarborough subway stops, the "speed" of the train vs. LRT might not matter much if you have to take a local bus or walk to your destination, right? The rapidways are obviously SPEEDier than buses in mixed-traffic but Viva will have to do a lot of other things right for it to all come together. Hopefully they can.

The travel time added from a few extra stations will be much less than if you have to wait for a bus, or walk 10-15 minutes to your destination between stations.

One thing YRT can look at is increasing the service levels on the routes that connect to the rapidways. Being able to reach Bayview quicker won't mean much if you still have to wait 20+ minutes for the local bus.
 
if YRT could get 15 minute frequencies for all feeder routes, more for major routes, along with 5 minute frequencies (7.5 or 10 minute off peak) on the busways, I think you would see ridership skyrocket. Mississauga is the transit model YRT / VIVA need to emulate.
 
On the way home from work today, I took some pictures of the nearly-open segment of Highway 7 Rapidway (Hwy 404 to Bayview).

East from East Beaver Creek. The single main reason people don't cycle to their office jobs in Markham: the ramps going onto the 404 (or 407). No geometric changes planned, just some bike lanes.
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...

A few more pictures are up on my flickr page.

reaperexpress, these are stunning images. I'm doing a report for school about the rapidways, would I be able to use one of your images as a cover photo for my report?
 
reaperexpress, these are stunning images. I'm doing a report for school about the rapidways, would I be able to use one of your images as a cover photo for my report?

Have some photos and videos as well. Sorry for the delay of getting them up, have been busy with work and procrastinating. I'll have them up tonight. Feel free to use them.

As for speed/frequency, they are both important in their own ways. If a transit route operates every 2 minutes, but stops at every intersection with inefficient boarding, people will drive if they have the opportunity. Likewise if a route is lightning fast and separated from traffic, but only runs once an hour, people may make scheduled trips on it but it won't work for impromptu travel resulting in car travel for these trips.
 
Enough with the speed obsession. Speed is a just one factor in a rider's overall trip.

Total travel speed (along with cost and comfort) is clearly a primary travel determinant.

Obviously any consideration of total travel speed would have to include values for access times and average dwell times in addition to direct travel time.

We're still talking about speed, though.
 
Have some photos and videos as well. Sorry for the delay of getting them up, have been busy with work and procrastinating. I'll have them up tonight. Feel free to use them.

As for speed/frequency, they are both important in their own ways. If a transit route operates every 2 minutes, but stops at every intersection with inefficient boarding, people will drive if they have the opportunity. Likewise if a route is lightning fast and separated from traffic, but only runs once an hour, people may make scheduled trips on it but it won't work for impromptu travel resulting in car travel for these trips.

Cheers, Thanks Electrify!
 
Cheers, Thanks Electrify!

Here are the pics I took from East Beaver Creek. The videos... they are still coming. As someone who hasn't done a lot of video uploading, I have discovered my upload speed is not up to snuff (256 kbps UL = would take about 8 hours to upload a 5 minute 1080p video!). I'm going to go by a wifi hotspot and try to upload it there.

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reaperexpress, these are stunning images. I'm doing a report for school about the rapidways, would I be able to use one of your images as a cover photo for my report?

Sure, go ahead! I generally licence them as Creative Commons when I remember to, I guess I didn't for those.
 
Could they set it up so that if the bus is waiting at a red, only the transit signal goes green giving it priority over left turners? I've always thought it silly that we spend money on "transit signals" which do nothing more than duplicate the general signals above them.

Yes. But that phase would take approximately 12 seconds of the signal cycle (~6 seconds green, 3 seconds amber, 3 seconds all-way red). So that really constricts the design of the signal cycle, requiring either a long cycle (potentially long wait times) or phase lengths which approach minimums (less responsive to changes in conditions). Given cycle lengths are typically 60-120 seconds, 12 seconds is actually a fairly big deal.

A more efficient way of accomplishing the same thing would be to skip the left-turn phase if there is a vehicle at the stop bar on the busway, instead moving it to the end of the through phase.

The main disadvantage of that design is that since the length of left turn phases would be calculated in advance of the actual phase, cars could end up waiting a full cycle to turn left if they arrive after the length has been calculated. But that's a pretty small price to pay for increased transit speed.

More detailed explanation:

The left turn phases should end at the same time, so that there is no wasted time before the cross phases start. Therefore, the time the turn phases start varies based on demand, as opposed to the current setup where the start time is fixed, and the end time varies.

Let's say the maximum left turn phase length is 20 seconds (14 seconds green, 3 seconds amber, 3 seconds all-way red). The length of the left turn phases would be calculated 27 seconds in advance of the end of the through phase (up to 20 seconds for the turn phase, 4 seconds amber, 3 seconds red for through along Hwy 7), with the actual turn phases beginning individually as calculated.
 
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Here are the pics I took from East Beaver Creek. The videos... they are still coming. As someone who hasn't done a lot of video uploading, I have discovered my upload speed is not up to snuff (256 kbps UL = would take about 8 hours to upload a 5 minute 1080p video!). I'm going to go by a wifi hotspot and try to upload it there.

Sure, go ahead! I generally licence them as Creative Commons when I remember to, I guess I didn't for those.

Thanks guys, I appreciate it!
 
I finally got around to taking the new Highway 7 rapidway section today, and I agree with those above that it's surprisingly fast. I can't wait until it's open from Bayview through to Markham Centre.

That being said, the new VIVA route that was proposed by YRT that would go straight down Highway 7 can't come soon enough. Having to transfer at Enterprise Drive from Pink to Purple is pretty brutal, and then you get stuck in traffic going north on Kennedy from YMCA boulevard (this was like 5-10 minutes just to get back to Highway 7). I get why some people in East Markham prefer the Route 1 bus, even if it's a milk run. With much of the growth in Markham occurring to the East in Cornell, YRT can't continue to ignore everyone east of Kennedy forever. Building the Cornell Terminal (YEARS after it was scheduled to open) would be a start.
 

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