YRT/Viva Construction Thread (Rapidways, Terminals)

[blaixx]

Here's the existing Jane Express route, which goes all the way to Hwy 407:

existing busses spend so much time exiting the street to service Terminals and whatnot

Dedicated turn lanes and signals might be the biggest improvement then.

 

[Bordercollie]

Here's the existing Jane Express route, which goes all the way to Hwy 407:
View attachment 606878

Dedicated turn lanes and signals might be the biggest improvement then.

That much money to save 3minutes?

It's a joke considering conventional buses are faster than BRT today. 99/98 is faster than Blue. Taking the 77 is faster than taking blue and orange. And riding a bicycle is faster than Blue.

 

[Northern Light]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849109843367301274

It would be interesting to see how this line gets built, considering how it seems like every location of interest is significantly offset from Jane Street itself (existing busses spend so much time exiting the street to service Terminals and whatnot).

This really isn't necessary at this point.

Jane is among YRT's best served routes, rivaling Yonge. But its still, mostly, an every 15M service.

You simply can't justify infrastructure at this cost and scale for anything less than the next bus is in sight during peak periods (every 5M or better), and every 10M at all but the most peripheral service periods.

Put another way, if you take the annualized expense of building this infrastructure and apply it to service, YRT service would improve dramatically and ridership could rise by as much as 30%.

Where as this will be lucky to boost ridership by 3% on a system-wide basis.

 

[Bordercollie]

This really isn't necessary at this point.

Jane is among YRT's best served routes, rivaling Yonge. But its still, mostly, an every 15M service.

You simply can't justify infrastructure at this cost and scale for anything less than the next bus is in sight during peak periods (every 5M or better), and every 10M at all but the most peripheral service periods.

Put another way, if you take the annualized expense of building this infrastructure and apply it to service, YRT service would improved dramatically and ridership could rise by as much as 30%.

Where as this will be lucky to boost ridership by 3% on a system-wide basis.

100%

Later buses on blue or 99. Faster service. It makes no sense for BRT to be slower than conventional buses.

 

[ARG1]

99/98 is faster than Blue.

... it is? That's quite the claim.

Maybe during late hours where there is barely any traffic, and traffic lights are almost always green...

 

[micheal_can]

... it is? That's quite the claim.

Maybe during late hours where there is barely any traffic, and traffic lights are almost always green...

The true test of RT is during the rush.

 

[SubHuman]

... it is? That's quite the claim.

Maybe during late hours where there is barely any traffic, and traffic lights are almost always green...

A few times over the summer I would be coming back to the city from Newmarket, Aurora, or Richmond Hill, and saw there was rarely any noticeable difference, though it's difficult to not think "what's the point?" when you're on a Blue bus that gets passed by the local 98/99.
For people not familiar with the system, they can also get into problems by getting confused with the different fare systems. You have to tap-on when boarding the local one, while you can't with the Blue one because there are no terminals on those buses. I've seen people get on a Blue bus looking for where to tap-on (not knowing they have do it on a terminal outside at the stop), then get caught by fare inspectors at the Richmond Hill station. Or they get on 98/99 (having already tapped-on outside) and walk past the driver who then yells "you have to pay".

 

[ARG1]

The true test of RT is during the rush.

The true test of RT is during all daylight hours, it should be faster than traffic during rush hours, as well as during midday with medium loads. If you're judging a line after 8pm then its kinda pointless.

 

[Sunnyside]

This really isn't necessary at this point.

Jane is among YRT's best served routes, rivaling Yonge. But its still, mostly, an every 15M service.

You simply can't justify infrastructure at this cost and scale for anything less than the next bus is in sight during peak periods (every 5M or better), and every 10M at all but the most peripheral service periods.

Put another way, if you take the annualized expense of building this infrastructure and apply it to service, YRT service would improve dramatically and ridership could rise by as much as 30%.

Where as this will be lucky to boost ridership by 3% on a system-wide basis.

There’s so many shitty eggs in the basket here with YRT that I look at what they do as the best possible omelette. This is all because Jane ridership has exploded since COVID (and really the TYSSE), yet they don’t have a clear path to expanding service… unless, perhaps, they give a shiny carrot to council. Is new infra the best priority? No, but it beats the Leslie or Major Mack corridors. And YRT takes those “seriously”.

YRT contracts operations, so adding service hours is not easy even if council was onboard with funding them. Let’s hope that the reliability gains allow for less padding, and eek out slightly better frequencies.

It is times like these I wish there was more transit-related planning legislation than for land-use. But sometimes I think unequal legislative priorities and outcomes are the point, nowadays.

 

[Northern Light]

There’s so many shitty eggs in the basket here with YRT that I look at what they do as the best possible omelette. This is all because Jane ridership has exploded since COVID (and really the TYSSE), yet they don’t have a clear path to expanding service… unless, perhaps, they give a shiny carrot to council. Is new infra the best priority? No, but it beats the Leslie or Major Mack corridors. And YRT takes those “seriously”.

YRT contracts operations, so adding service hours is not easy even if council was onboard with funding them. Let’s hope that the reliability gains allow for less padding, and eek out slightly better frequencies.

It is times like these I wish there was more transit-related planning legislation than for land-use. But sometimes I think unequal legislative priorities and outcomes are the point, nowadays.

The government of Ontario should simply make clear to York, that there will be no infrastructure funding from the province, for anything in York, including the Line 1 extension until York has a frequent service network in place, with service every 10M or better in rush hours and every 15M or better at all other times.

That would get York's attention.

 

[canarob]

I'm waiting on the rapidway expansion from Unionville GO to the Cornell Terminal but fully agree that this is also a bit pointless when service levels on VIVA are so poor.

 

[Sunnyside]

The government of Ontario should simply make clear to York, that there will be no infrastructure funding from the province, for anything in York, including the Line 1 extension until York has a frequent service network in place, with service every 10M or better in rush hours and every 15M or better at all other times.

That would get York's attention.

Wholly agreed. Though I think this would go better if it was a blanket policy applied across the GGH, York already gets special treatment wrt legislation.

There is also a chance they are (fully and openly) banking on the service hours becoming available after YNSE… poor planning as that may be.

 

[ARG1]

The government of Ontario should simply make clear to York, that there will be no infrastructure funding from the province, for anything in York, including the Line 1 extension until York has a frequent service network in place, with service every 10M or better in rush hours and every 15M or better at all other times.

That would get York's attention.

I'd imagine a more reasonable requirement would be to run 10M or better all day on any piece of infrastructure that was funded by the Government of Ontario (although maybe not Viva Yellow, I think the existing 15m service is perfectly fine for that route).

That being said I worry that legislation like this would instead get York Region to mothball infrastructure such as Viva Orange... Perverse incentives and all that.

 

[Northern Light]

I'd imagine a more reasonable requirement would be to run 10M or better all day on any piece of infrastructure that was funded by the Government of Ontario (although maybe not Viva Yellow, I think the existing 15m service is perfectly fine for that route).

That being said I worry that legislation like this would instead get York Region to mothball infrastructure such as Viva Orange... Perverse incentives and all that.

Ontario has absolute legislative authority over municipalities. This Premier has also shown a willingness to use or threaten to use those powers.

The province can legislate a minimum transit spend per resident in the GTA if it so chooses, or can mandate explicit service levels.

There are no shortage of options.

 

[ARG1]

Ontario has absolute legislative authority over municipalities. This Premier has also shown a willingness to use or threaten to use those powers.

The province can legislate a minimum transit spend per resident in the GTA if it so chooses, or can mandate explicit service levels.

There are no shortage of options.

I don't disagree that the province can do that, however I'm thinking of policy that directly ties service spending to provincial funding. So "you can spend how much you like on running all other busses, but as long as we're spending x amount of money on these routes, you better run y service on them as well". There's no reason why the province should be concerned on how often YRT runs the 50 Queensway bus to Sutton.