York Region Transit: Viva service thread

[doady]

^ Following that premise, TTC should never learn anything from any other transit system that has a lover cost recovery ratio. Surely the TTC knows better, and if the other system's practices diverge from TTC's, it is the reason they can't attain the same recovery ratio.

Somehow you equate efficiency, artics, and cost recovery with "anything"? I never said TTC can't learn anything from other systems, stop putting words into my mouth.

 

[taal]

Blue

What I meant by 'finicky' was that the TTC is dictated far too often by the wants of the current mayor. YRT routes change all the time, yes, but that's due to seasonal ridership increases/decreases. TTC routes are often dictated by some idiot deciding that he no longer deems a certain route to be necessary at this or that time of day. You don't see that on the YRT.

I'm not sure where you're getting this from - the TTC has made many changes all on their own over the last 5 years, the majority were service increases they thought were necessary. Moreover, Ford didn't dictate what routes be cut, he simply insisted money be saved (rightfully or wrongfully) and the TTC decided the details. This happens all the times, I'm sure it happens with the YRT - we've seen for a fact it happens with MT - these budgets change ...


For me, reliability also has something to do with me being able to get home in one piece. Not only is the project over-due, but they still refuse to properly inform riders that service ends at Eglinton until you're already there. As someone who has to continue my trip as far north as I can possibly get via TTC, it's a little tiresome to deal with and it's just frustrating that they're taking their typical unionized sweet time doing what they're doing. And if they have good reason for the delays, they sure aren't communicating them to anyone. But that's a whole other issue.

meh, I'm not disagreeing with you on this but we don't know the details i.e. why it's taking so long so I'm not going to touch the 'union' issue you brought up - moreover YRT is all unionized as well.
Regarding the communication, I dunno - almost every station I see has the little notices plastered everywhere that state service ends at Eglinoton. It's been going on for a while now I'd assume most would be aware of it. There's always people at Eglinton that help with the transition. It's pretty smooth I find. It'd be interesting to know the rationale behind the delay and I"m sure there's probably some valid complaints there.


That's true, but I still believe that it's a little different given that no one "mayor" runs the entire region, and thus no one person can just simply stick his nose in their business and decree that certain routes are simply not needed, or new ones that go to nowhere are somehow necessary just to service some relatives they have or something.



Perhaps it's not as simple as that? I can only imagine that the fees the TTC charges to run those routes are terribly expensive, especially given the wages of TTC drivers these days. I'm sure cost of running the line has some impact on how frequent the YRT is willing to run them. Some lines increased in frequency a year or two ago, but if I remember correctly when the Toronto budget came into play some time last year, most of those improvements were reversed, or made even worse than they were previously.

I'm not entirely convinced that YRT has full control on those lines, especially given that south of Steeles, they're run as typical TTC routes so they have to abide by some scheduling rules there as well.

They control it fully - it's possible for the TTC to disgaree to an increase of service but they dictate the terms. Whatever the TTC charges is whatever they charge - all of this in YRT's hands. Moreover, these aren't the most used routes anyway and when I talk about improving YRT feeder routes these aren't the ones that jump out in mind. Just recently in fact I recall yrt asking the TTC to make an increase and they did.


And on the topic of flashy marketing, I agree that it eventually becomes a burden more than a benefit. However, until we reach that point (which is fairly far away) the flash is fine by me.

 

[doady]

Btw, even as we debate the merit of artics, there is reportedly not a single artic in operation in Mississauga today, due to the snow. Are the Van Hools out on VIVA Blue today?

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

Btw, even as we debate the merit of artics, there is reportedly not a single artic in operation in Mississauga today, due to the snow. Are the Van Hools out on VIVA Blue today?

Yup, they`re out there. It`s literally impossible to supplement all the AG300s with A330s and still run service on the other Viva routes.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

Here`s a list of the service changes effective as of February 27, 2011:

Viva:
Blue - Various trips shifted from Bernard Terminal to Newmarket GO Terminal. Southbound trips from Bernard Terminal depart between 7:50am-9:10am and 5:03pm-5:51pm, every 8 minutes.
Blue A - Trip adjustments
Purple - Frequencies adjusted. AM and PM peak every 12-13 minutes, Midday every 14 minutes, Saturday every 14 minutes, Saturday evening every 18 minutes
Pink - Frequency and Trip adjustments. AM and PM peak every 12 minutes. Earlier AM and PM peak trips.
Orange - Earlier trips on Saturday and Sunday
Green - Earlier AM and PM peak trips

YRT:
2 - Frequencies adjusted Monday to Friday. AM and PM peak every 22-23 minutes, Midday every 39 minutes.
2A - Frequencies improved Monday to Friday Rush hour. AM peak every 24 minutes, PM peak every 26 minutes.
5 - Stop #1398 moved 100 meters west to provide sufficient room for turns.
7 - More consistent AM peak frequency of 25 minutes. PM peak frequency adjusted to every 25 minutes.
8 - Frequencies adjusted Monday to Friday. AM peak every 19 minutes, Midday every 33 minutes, PM peak every 20 minutes.
9 - 7:30am trip extended to Church Street and Bramble Way.
10 - Layover moved to York U from Islington/Rutherford.
22/22A - Schedule adjustments to better reflect travel times.
27 - Trip time changes
31 - 7:15pm southbound and 7:40pm northbound trips discontinued
33 - Saturday services adjusted. 5:40am, 8:10pm eastbound and 5:55am, 8:25pm westbound trips discontinued (33). 8:40pm eastbound and 8:50pm westbound trips discontinued (33A).
40/41 - Frequency adjustments Monday to Sunday. AM and PM peak every 30 minutes. Saturday, Sunday and Holiday every 60 minutes.
42 - New 3:15 southbound trip from Carlton/McCowan
51 - Routing restructured. Service to Keswick Market will operate along Woodbine Ave. instead of Glenwoods Ave.
53 - Weekday and Sunday trip adjustments. Weekday 9:48pm, 1048pm northbound and 10:15pm southbound trips canceled. All trips after 9:00pm on Sundays canceled.
56 - Weekday and Sunday trip adjustments. All trips after 9:00pm on weekdays canceled. All trips after 11:00pm on Sundays canceled
77 - PM trip serving Holy Cross Catholic will start at Highway 50, south on Highway 27, east on Steeles, north on Martin Grove
82 - Trip adjustments. Weekday 7:20pm, 7:55pm northbound and 7:50pm southbound trip discontinued. Saturday 7:30pm northbound and 8:00pm Southbound trips canceled.
86 - Frequencies adjusted Monday to Friday. Evening service every 60 minutes. Trip times adjusted for GO Train connections. Operation Transferred to Division 2 (First Student)
88 - Additional running time added to schedules
90 - Runtime and schedules adjusted. Service on both branches adjusted to every 28 minutes in AM and PM Peak (14 minutes combined south of Highway 7), and every 33 minutes in the midday (17 minutes combined south of Highway 7)
91 - Frequency adjustments. Frequency adjusted to every 22 minutes during peak periods. Combined 91/91A frequency every 12 minutes during peak periods.
98 - Frequencies adjusted Monday to Friday. AM and PM peak every 28-30 minutes, Midday and Evening every 39 minutes.
98E - 5:35pm trip now departs at 4:50pm
99 - Schedule and Trip adjustments. Earlier service on weekdays. Early morning every 28 minutes, AM and PM peak every 17 minutes, Midday every 25 minutes
98/99 - Schedule and trip adjustments. Weekday late evening every 29 minutes. Sunday late evening every 39 minutes. Trip adjustments.
303 - Trip times reduced by 2 minutes
360 - Stop #4230 serviced for southbound trips at Vaughan Mills

TTC changes (effective Feburary 13, 2011)
102D - Weekday trip adjustments. 5:00am, 5:32am, and 10:30pm northbound trips canceled. 6:12am, 6:47am, and 11:50pm southbound trips canceled.
129A - Weekday trip adjustments. 5:52am northbound trip canceled. 5:48am southbound trip canceled.
24D - Weekday trip adjustments. 9:56pm northbound trip canceled. 11:01pm southbound trip canceled.
107 - Detour due to road work on Keele. Buses detouring via York Lanes, the Busway, and Murray Ross Parkway. Extra runtime of 14 minutes.

 

[taal]

Are those improvements ? It's hard to tell all it says is adjustment in each case

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

Are those improvements ? It's hard to tell all it says is adjustment in each case

There are adjustments to the run times, changes to departure times, new trips being added and trips being discontinued. So I would say 'adjustments.'

 

[accura407]

viva orange

in regards to viva orange not using the new york university busway...

behind the scenes, what is really the reason for it? I smell some kind of political issues but what is it exactly? It is publicly posted on all viva maps that they want to alter the route onto the busway but its been a long long time and there is no signs of progress...?

 

[Electrify]

Yup, they`re out there. It`s literally impossible to supplement all the AG300s with A330s and still run service on the other Viva routes.

Plus they are used on one of the hilliest routes (essentially uphill from Finch/Davis to Bloomington).

 

[APTA-2048]

in regards to viva orange not using the new york university busway...

behind the scenes, what is really the reason for it? I smell some kind of political issues but what is it exactly? It is publicly posted on all viva maps that they want to alter the route onto the busway but its been a long long time and there is no signs of progress...?

From the vivaNext Facebook page, "...YRT is tentatively aiming to have Viva Orange access the busway inspring of 2011..." As for why they never started using it when it opened, I don't know. I think someone brought it up before though.

 

[xtremesniper]

From the vivaNext Facebook page, "...YRT is tentatively aiming to have Viva Orange access the busway inspring of 2011..." As for why they never started using it when it opened, I don't know. I think someone brought it up before though.

I believe that there was a conflict with the TTC regarding using YRT using the busway without having paid for any of the development of it. Stupid political issues, really. In any case, the sooner they hop on that route, the better. But if they do use the route, then would they have to relocate the Finch/Keele stop? I don't think the bus would pass through there if it were on the busway, no?

meh, I'm not disagreeing with you on this but we don't know the details i.e. why it's taking so long so I'm not going to touch the 'union' issue you brought up - moreover YRT is all unionized as well.

Fair enough. We don't know the details and it's unfair to make assumptions, but perhaps I was just making a guess... potentially an educated guess. Anyway, YRT is unionized but they are split into many different unions so they don't shut down the entire region's transportation system if one of them decides to strike. And also it creates almost a sense of competition amongst themselves. But anyway, we're not talking about unions here so I won't comment further.

They control it fully - it's possible for the TTC to disgaree to an increase of service but they dictate the terms. Whatever the TTC charges is whatever they charge - all of this in YRT's hands. Moreover, these aren't the most used routes anyway and when I talk about improving YRT feeder routes these aren't the ones that jump out in mind. Just recently in fact I recall yrt asking the TTC to make an increase and they did.

That's news to me, but if that's the case then sure I guess.

To me, the north/south routes are indeed the main feeder routes going to Viva Purple. If you were talking about Blue, that's another issue entirely, but I was speaking about Purple/Pink/(Green?). The main reason why I didn't take Purple from Warden, and instead took an east/west route to Yonge before heading south to RHC was because the north/south routes are pretty abysmal.

 

[reaperexpress]

I believe that there was a conflict with the TTC regarding using YRT using the busway without having paid for any of the development of it. Stupid political issues, really. In any case, the sooner they hop on that route, the better. But if they do use the route, then would they have to relocate the Finch/Keele stop? I don't think the bus would pass through there if it were on the busway, no?

There is absolutely no evidence of any conflict between YRT and TTC. Ever since the beginning, the TTC has been saying that the busway is available for use by BT, YRT and GO at no charge. For example, that is clearly stated in this report from the TTC.

When I contacted YRT about the delay, they said that it was due to Imperial Oil (which owns some of the land under the busway) being slow to sign papers. That was more than a year ago, so I doubt that it's the only reason.

As for station relocation, this report from the York Region BRT PPP from 2007 explains the original plan. Keele-Finch would be replaced by Murray Ross and Dufferin-Finch Viva stations.

As a part of the York University Busway project, a new bus bay was built at Downsview for use by Viva. It is currently unused and was blocked off by temporary fencing last time I went by. All that remains to be done to implement Viva BRT service is to move the VivaNow machines, as outlined in the YRBRTPPP report.

 

[accura407]

There is absolutely no evidence of any conflict between YRT and TTC. Ever since the beginning, the TTC has been saying that the busway is available for use by BT, YRT and GO at no charge. For example, that is clearly stated in this report from the TTC.

When I contacted YRT about the delay, they said that it was due to Imperial Oil (which owns some of the land under the busway) being slow to sign papers. That was more than a year ago, so I doubt that it's the only reason.

As for station relocation, this report from the York Region BRT PPP from 2007 explains the original plan. Keele-Finch would be replaced by Murray Ross and Dufferin-Finch Viva stations.

As a part of the York University Busway project, a new bus bay was built at Downsview for use by Viva. It is currently unused and was blocked off by temporary fencing last time I went by. All that remains to be done to implement Viva BRT service is to move the VivaNow machines, as outlined in the YRBRTPPP report.

Maybe this explains the reason why Brampton Zum decided to end the route at York University instead of Downsview...because in comparison to the rest of their fast route, this section would be very VERY slow...and since they are running a long route from Downtown Brampton, its important that these buses don't get overly delayed...

So once the busway is open for all...my guess is Zum will extend service to Downsview station...

But a friend of mine who's dad works for the TTC hinted the same idea as the poster above...that TTC is making a fuss about not getting any money for the busway...all rumours though so no idea

 

[reaperexpress]

I went by Promenade Terminal to see if they had finished installing the Next Bus displays, and indeed they had.

The Viva platform has a new display showing the next 2 Viva Purples. Subsequent buses can be found scrolling along the second line of the display on the oneRide machine.

YRT routes at the terminal also get displays. This is quite helpful because many YRT buses run atrocious service frequencies. For example, last I checked, Route 3 has a 20min peak/40min off-peak service frequency. Personally, I will benefit from these screens, because they'll let me know whether it would be faster to wait for the 3 or to take another bus and transfer to get to my destination.

TTC route 160 Bathurst North gets a matching sign, but no next bus display.

On a different note, it looks like they're on track for activating Presto within a month. Most Viva stops that I checked either had Presto readers installed or in the process of being installed. Additionally, almost all YRT buses now have Presto readers.

There is obviously not enough education in York Region about the new Presto machines. People seem to have mistaken this one, at the Dufferin Viva stop, for a coffee table.

Closeup of the reader:

 

[wyliepoon]

I'm considering getting Presto for use on YRT/Viva and the GO Train. One question I really need answered is how Presto would work with TTC buses in York Region. Will they have card readers installed? If not, how can I pay the YRT fare?

The Viva Presto reader has a 'print' button. I'm assuming that button will print the Proof-of-Payment that will let me transfer to other buses?