York Region Transit: Viva service thread

[Second_in_pie]

The only apparent pattern of importantness is, perhaps, that they picked Finch West so that Jane & Finch could get two lines (along with Flemingdon Park and Malvern). And that can't even be proven unless one of the six or so people that had influence on the plan come out and say it. Exclude that, and there's no rational or systematic way to compare why some routes are seeing their buses replaced and others are not.

Completely political, I tells ya! It should be pretty obvious that the routes were simply chosen because of their political value. We're not building a Transit City, just a City that has David Miller as mayor for life

 

[marcus_a_j]

I was at the Don Mills/Leslie LRT PIC last night and boy were the locals pissed off about it. It was as if Blue 22 relocated to the middle of Don Mills Road. Granted, those running the information centre did not do good enough job explaining what exactly is being proposed and how it will operate and look (taking cues from Transfer City, perhaps?). Some of my favourite comments:

* Run it down the 404/Woodbine/Warden
* Don't take away a lane of our traffic (to one lane each way)
* Make it elevated
* Use technology with magnets like the Japanese bullet trains
* Markham planners don't know what they're doing
* The road surface is already crap, and it will make it worse
* We don't want lanes with rail tracks down the middle
* We don't want trains running up and down the street
* It will cause more congestion
* No commuter parking???
* The trains will make it a lot more dangerous for the children to cross Don Mills
* It will divide the community
* In case of a disaster on the York Sub (like in Mississauga), the safety of the residents is compromised because it will prevent them from evacuating the neighbourhood

and my absolute favourite, said multiple times,

* That's my backyard!!!!!!

 

[kettal]

The only apparent pattern of importantness is, perhaps, that they picked Finch West so that Jane & Finch could get two lines (along with Flemingdon Park and Malvern). And that can't even be proven unless one of the six or so people that had influence on the plan come out and say it. Exclude that, and there's no rational or systematic way to compare why some routes are seeing their buses replaced and others are not.

Please, please tell me, what parallel route in the north west is more appropriate for such an upgrade than Finch West?

 

[kettal]

* Run it down the 404/Woodbine/Warden
* Don't take away a lane of our traffic (to one lane each way)
* Make it elevated
* Use technology with magnets like the Japanese bullet trains
* Markham planners don't know what they're doing
* The road surface is already crap, and it will make it worse
* We don't want lanes with rail tracks down the middle
* We don't want trains running up and down the street
* It will cause more congestion
* No commuter parking???
* The trains will make it a lot more dangerous for the children to cross Don Mills
* It will divide the community
* In case of a disaster on the York Sub (like in Mississauga), the safety of the residents is compromised because it will prevent them from evacuating the neighbourhood

and my absolute favourite, said multiple times,

* That's my backyard!!!!!!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

[Second_in_pie]

lol!

* Use technology with magnets like the Japanese bullet trains
* Markham planners don't know what they're doing

Those are definitely my two favorites.

 

[tapper of spines]

I would suggest Major mackenzie, but in all honesty there isn't much on major mack except for wonderland and the Yokr central hopsital and apart from those it is pretty muhc just empty land or low density housing.

FWIW, there are two GO train stations as well, Maple and Richmond Hill.

TOS

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Please, please tell me, what parallel route in the north west is more appropriate for such an upgrade than Finch West?

"More appropriate" suggests that routes are being ranked in some way...how are you ranking them? Receptivity to the awesomeness of light rail? There's absolutely no discernible explanation for the 6 suburban LRT lines other than the fact that they intercept each other at Jane & Finch, Flemindgon Park, and Malvern. LRT can work on Finch West but so could other alternatives. For all the whining LRT supporters do about capacity, it needs to be noted that Finch West has a high total ridership but should see its peak ridership figures drop quite precipitously once the Spadina line is extended, cleaving the 36 into two at Keele. The area is also utterly unserved by GO trains, but this is not a permanent condition.

Are you really as unfamiliar with the city as you're making yourself out to be? Wilson/Weston, Lawrence, Steeles, Extending Sheppard to Downsview...none of these were on the LRT Fairy's dole and none of these routes will see any improvements (maybe they'll throw on one more bus during rush hour, reducing frequency from 4.2 minutes to 4.1 minutes), and those are just parallel routes. The cost of Finch West alone could have paid for all manner of improvements to dozens of, if not all, other surface routes. Transit City is not a rapid transit plan, and only people within a few minutes walk of Finch will benefit, not the entire NW quadrant of the city, so it doesn't really matter if a parallel route did or did not receive an "upgrade."

 

[Second_in_pie]

In all fairness Scarberian, I think a Finch West would be a good investment compared to the other routes. Of course, one would ask why they don't just built a Transitway on the Hydro Corridor instead. :\

 

[kettal]

There's absolutely no discernible explanation for the 6 suburban LRT lines other than the fact that they intercept each other at Jane & Finch, Flemindgon Park, and Malvern.

Remind me why this is a bad thing? Is serving some of the highest density nodes in the suburbs a sign of bad planning? Maybe you need a refresher: density = higher demand.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Remind me why this is a bad thing? Is serving some of the highest density nodes in the suburbs a sign of bad planning? Maybe you need a refresher: density = higher demand.

Yes, Transit City is very bad planning.

Density does not automatically equal higher demand...which is so obvious it shouldn't need to be said (where people are going is what matters, and where the schools and jobs and stores are). Not that there's any density at Morningside & Sheppard other than detached houses and a Home Depot. Or any density on Jane that Tridel couldn't match in 2 years anywhere else in the city. The entire city is filled with high density apartment clusters. Some high density nodes are seeing their buses replaced at extreme cost and at the expense of others: Warden & Finch and Bathurst & Steeles and Dixon & Islington and a dozen other major corridors lost out on this round of light rail roulette. It's like Miller just decided to plan which buses got replaced one day at lunch where he happened to use a Ride Guide as a placemat, and whichever routes the ketchup from his burger dripped on were the routes designated for increased Avenueization and increased awesomeness due to LRT.

 

[kettal]

The entire city is filled with high density apartment clusters. Some high density nodes are seeing their buses replaced at extreme cost and at the expense of others: Warden & Finch and Bathurst & Steeles and Dixon & Islington and a dozen other major corridors lost out on this round of light rail roulette.

Ah, yes it was a choice. Dalton McGuinty came into town with a $9 billion cheque and said "Miller, you can use this money to modestly enhance performance on every bus in the city, or you can build 4 rail lines", and after several minutes of weighing his options, the mayor chose the latter.

Don't even ask what choices were on the table for the Sorbara Subway cash, you'll cry when you find out.

It's like Miller just decided to plan which buses got replaced one day at lunch where he happened to use a Ride Guide as a placemat, and whichever routes the ketchup from his burger dripped on were the routes designated for increased Avenueization and increased awesomeness due to LRT.

Look at any density map, and the corridors are obvious. My apologies for the quality of this one, I can't find the better one I was looking for.

You were saying that Wilson was just big a priority? Okay. And Weston? What happened to Mr. Go serviced areas don't need more transit? Or does that only apply to Markham?

Again, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be improvements to many of these arterials. I'm saying the priority routes are obvious.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Ah, yes it was a choice. Dalton McGuinty came into town with a $9 billion cheque and said "Miller, you can use this money to modestly enhance performance on every bus in the city, or you can build 4 rail lines", and after several minutes of weighing his options, the mayor chose the latter.

Well, yeah, Miller was given a blank cheque...that's why existing transit plans and the official plan were rewritten 5 seconds before the province announced a bajillion dollars in new funding. There's all kinds of stuff in the ridership growth strategy, for instance, that has been cast aside so that the Home Depot at Morningside & Sheppard can have over $2B worth of LRT running to it. They could easily have funded the DRL, plus a Danforth extension to STC, plus a bunch of LRT lines, plus significant improvements to a hundred bus routes, and more, or just throw all the eggs into one basket using a mode that the city is currently not very competent at operating...and the mayor chose the latter.

Look at any density map, and the corridors are obvious. My apologies for the quality of this one, I can't find the better one I was looking for.

You were saying that Wilson was just big a priority? Okay. And Weston? What happened to Mr. Go serviced areas don't need more transit? Or does that only apply to Markham?

Yet you know I'm talking about the 96/165...or did you not know that they overlap? They're also not served by GO at all.

And that map is just a bunch of dots that ignores houses and jobs and schools and stores and street widths and traffic congestion and a hundred other things, all of which matter more than which corridor has more dots...and that map is riddled with dozens, if not hundreds of errors.

Even with the errors and with all the actual context (and trip generators) missing from that map of meaningless dots, it's hard to miss the dots along Bathurst, or Victoria Park, or Lawrence/Dixon, or Kipling...

Again, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be improvements to many of these arterials. I'm saying the priority routes are obvious.

The attempt to use precious transit funding to fix socio-economic problems in priority neighbourhoods is obvious, but they couldn't even be bothered to serve all the priority neighbourhoods (Jane & Finch and Malvern and Flemingdon are well known but some of the others get ignored).

 

[Rainforest]

For all the whining LRT supporters do about capacity, it needs to be noted that Finch West has a high total ridership but should see its peak ridership figures drop quite precipitously once the Spadina line is extended, cleaving the 36 into two at Keele.

The effect of Spadina extension will have on the Finch West ridership is not clear at this point. On one hand, many existing riders will transfer to the subway at Finch / Keele, and hence no longer use the section east of Keele. But on the hand, the route will become more attractive for new riders (who use other TTC routes or cars now).

The cost of Finch West alone could have paid for all manner of improvements to dozens of, if not all, other surface routes.

The big question is whether "improvement" means creating a ROW, or just adding more buses. If we only consider adding more buses (that might include adding artics and / or running more expresses), then indeed a cost of just one LRT line would pay for upgrades to many bus routes. However, only so much can be done with mixed-traffic buses that suffer from traffic congestion on many streets. If we decide to create a ROW, it usually costs quite a bit even if it is BRT.

I agree though that the list of Transit City One routes is somewhat odd.

 

[smuncky]

a new video from the vivanext website.

http://www.vivanext.com/assets/templates/vivanext/video/default.flv

and a change to viva blue service...

Viva blue late evening weekday, Saturday and Sunday/Holiday services will be discontinued due to low ridership. Route 98/99 – Yonge will continue to provide late evening service.

doesn't come as a suprise to me. i didn't think this would go on forever as there were too few riders and too many empty buses running the route.

 

[Second_in_pie]

So it's basically only a weekday service now? And does it only apply for Viva Blue, or Purple and Orange as well?