Yonge Street Revitalization (Downtown Yonge BIA/City of Toronto)

[freshcutgrass]

To me, hip hop is the soundtrack of Toronto. In hip hop, they sample all other genres of music (stealing from it, critics might say), so you end up with a rich mosaic of sounds from different eras such as jazz, rock, blues, funk, techno. To me this evokes Toronto's gritty, haphazard, heterogeneous mix of architectural styles from various eras. It also evokes the multicultural ethnic make-up of the younger generation in Toronto.

ha...And I'm being accused of romanticizing???

Why learn to make sounds when you can just sample them. Problem is, eventually you run out of things to sample and no one left who knows how to make originals. Like anything parasitic in nature, you run the risk of eventually killing the host.

Hip Hop is the proverbial pyramid scheme of the musical world.

“Several years ago, I met a young brother, and I asked him, ‘What do you do, son?’ He said, ‘I make beats.’ I said, ‘You make beats, huh?’ He said, ‘Yeah.’
I said, ‘Naw, son, IIIIIIIII make beats! Can you sit down here (on the drums) and make a beat?’ He said, ‘No.’
And I said, ‘Alright, then, you don’t make beats, you TAKE beats!’ ”

— Marvin “Smitty” Smith

I have an old friend who likes to claim the same thing - that truly great music more or less dried up after the seventies. Absurd.

There's lots of great music being made...rap just isn't it.

Other musical fads like disco & punk came and died quickly by morphing into something else. Let's just hope rap morphs into something better.

 

[Lenser]

Pshawwwww. Your anti-rap stance, though common enough, isn't very illuminating. You just don't like it; fine, we can all see that. Your vehemently claiming that it's not great music just means you don't get it. That's OK though - history is full of cultural nay-sayers. You're in good company!

 

[ssiguy2]

Anyway, I just thank the maker I didn't have to be raised in such a time of lousy music and videos which are just a bunch of impants dancing around guys who have their pants hanging down from their knees.

Whatever you think about music, the reality is that the music scene, regardless of genre, is on the sharp decline in most cities.
Condos downtown where suburbanites want to live close to work but bring their suburban mentalities with them. They want an exciting city but only if it doesn't interfere with their sleep. Music videos, getting free music, constant internet playing, IPODS, talking endlessly on the phone or text messaging, and the fact that there are, relatively, far fewer young people than there use to be have led to a decline in the music scene. Saturday night were also EVERYBODY'S night out because nobody worked on Sundays as nothing was open. Cruising up and down a city's main drag was the thing to do on a Saturday night. People were also more foot loose and fancy free in the 70s.............as the expression goes, "the 70s was the party and the 80s was the hangover".

Although the city has completely ignored Yonge over the years, it is also a reflection of the times. Just as places like Ontario place use to be all the rage are now reflects of a bygone era.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Your vehemently claiming that it's not great music just means you don't get it.

That's like telling the Micheline Star chef that not agreeing that a Big Mac is great food is because he doesn't get it.. I don't dislike rap because of the way it "sounds"...there's lots of sounds I don't like in any genre. So why is it I centre out this entire genre then? Because there's something fundamentally wrong with it that puts it in that unique category.

I hate to quote others too much (not that I lack a personal opinion if you hadn't already noticed), but I like the way Nicholas Payton put it.....

Sampling is cool, but when you learn an instrument, you don’t need a sampler.

Life Is A Sample

As humans, we are all analog samplers, and we can use our senses to recall or replicate any mood or vibe our creativity will allow. But if you haven’t done the homework, and your knowledge is limited, you have no choice but to tread on someone else’s output.

The more generations we cultivate with a lack of appreciation for the arts, and don’t take time to instill a sensibility for musical virtuosity, we do damage to our community. We’re creating generations of people who don’t know the power of real music, and as a result: Mediocrity is the new genius.

 

[freshcutgrass]

as the expression goes, "the 70s was the party and the 80s was the hangover".

There are days when I think, politics aside, that perhaps the 80's might just have been better than the 70's, musically and stylistically. The beginning of the MTV era was pretty fun, before it all went to sh*t later.

Although the city has completely ignored Yonge over the years, it is also a reflection of the times. Just as places like Ontario place use to be all the rage are now reflects of a bygone era.

Whether it's Ontario Place, Science Centre, Eaton Centre or Yonge Street...they are venues. The content of the venue has to remain relevant to what the public is engaging in, or it will stagnate and become a hollow shell. I don't think the future of Yonge Street looks anything like it's past, and it can't if it is going to succeed.

 

[MisterF]

I've been saying it...you just don't want to listen (obviously, as insulting me avoids the fact that it doesn't prove your point)

No, you've just been going on about thugs and pants falling down. And if you mention the angry old man thing and the proceed to go on an angry old man rant, who could blame me for pointing it out? lol

Ok...let's pretend I've been away for 20 years and haven't heard anything new (rolls eyes). If what you are saying is true, then you should have no problem enlightening me with this supposed huge list of virtuoso mainstream musicians that is on par with 70's musicians then.

I'm not getting falling into the trap of listing bands and arguing about which ones are better with someone who's made up his mind already. But if you're really interested in finding music from the last decade and change that's worth listening to, this would be a good place to start. There's some amazing (and not so amazing) stuff on that list, most of which is far better than Meat Loaf and Foreigner. And of course that doesn't even get into countless indie bands and artists from other genres.

 

[RippedLikeStinson]

Pshawwwww. Your anti-rap stance, though common enough, isn't very illuminating. You just don't like it; fine, we can all see that. Your vehemently claiming that it's not great music just means you don't get it. That's OK though - history is full of cultural nay-sayers. You're in good company!

Not liking something isn't akin to not understanding it, necessarily. I understand rap, I just think it sounds like garbage and is unoriginal. Phonetically, it takes a lot of skill, but musically it is rubbish. I would rather listen to rap or hip hop, however, over a band like Arcade Fire -- or any indie (genre) band. Indie rock is the most annoying genre of music to listen to. The whole scene is so depressing and neurotic and full of weird, waifish white kids. When I hear an indie song or see a hipster, Pantera's Vulgar Display of Power album cover comes to mind. Freshcutgrass - you didn't mention the Bee Gees and the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack, which came out in 1977. Personally, I'd say the early 70s were better than the latter.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Speaking of music and Yonge Street Downtown, there is Massey Hall.

Aside from maybe Radio City Music Hall, there may not be a more storied venue in the world. It's acoustics are also legendary. I only hope the renos courtesy of the condos are positive. I'm glad I managed to catch one of those annual Gordon Lightfoot concerts before it's too late. I own three seminal recordings made at MH...
The Quintet (Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, Bud Powell, Charles Mingus and Max Roach play together for the only time in their lives) 1953.
Live At Massey Hall 1971 (Neil Young) 1971
All The World’s A Stage (Rush) 1976

 

[RippedLikeStinson]

Aside from maybe Radio City Music Hall, there may not be a more storied venue in the world. It's acoustics are also legendary. I only hope the renos courtesy of the condos are positive. I'm glad I managed to catch one of those annual Gordon Lightfoot concerts before it's too late. I own three seminal recordings made at MH...
The Quintet (Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, Bud Powell, Charles Mingus and Max Roach play together for the only time in their lives) 1953.
Live At Massey Hall 1971 (Neil Young) 1971
All The World’s A Stage (Rush) 1976

Apparently it is Aerosmith's favourite venue in the world.

 

[freshcutgrass]

There's some amazing (and not so amazing) stuff on that list, most of which is far better than Meat Loaf and Foreigner.

That list is just the usual suspects...no? Or are you still under the impression I'm sitting in an old folks home play'n my K-tel records and had never heard them?

There's lots of good stuff on there. Plenty missing as well. Great thing about all these indie garage bands, is there's tons of them (bad thing is they almost all sound the same...but that's hipsterism for ya), and hence, lots of local ones. Deadly Snakes Ode to Joy is one of my faves fro 2003.

And who said Meatloaf and Foreigner were good?

But 35 years from now, how many albums on that list will be considered "classics" or have sold 40 million units?

Freshcutgrass - you didn't mention the Bee Gees and the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack, which came out in 1977.

There's a lot I haven't mentioned about 1977...it's only some "teasers" I've mentioned so far. But having said that, I did mention it (top ten album sales of all time).

Personally, I'd say the early 70s were better than the latter.

I just picked one year, and decided on 1977. I don't need the entire "70's" to make my case for the same reason Chuck Norris is only going to use his thumb to kick your ass.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Apparently it is Aerosmith's favourite venue in the world.

My Yonge St-Massey Hall-Aerosmith story.....It was a few summers ago now and I was standing right near Massey Hall outside the Eaton Centre at Yonge & Shuter having a smoke (2 years smoke free now), and who's casually strolling down Yonge...Steven Tyler.

 

[RippedLikeStinson]

My Yonge St-Massey Hall-Aerosmith story.....It was a few summers ago now and I was standing right near Massey Hall outside the Eaton Centre at Yonge & Shuter having a smoke (2 years smoke free now), and who's casually strolling down Yonge...Steven Tyler.

Did you ask him if he can swallow a watermelon, whole?

 

[freshcutgrass]

I remember thinking why is he walking down Yonge St? (it was just him and and another person...not an entourage situation) Maybe he was thinking Yonge St was like the old days, and he thought he would just "cruise" down Yonge?

Speaking of Aerosmith and the subject of hip hop...who should we blame more.....Aerosmith for making hip hop mainstream, or Run-DMC for reviving Aerosmith's career? ha ha

At least they collaborated with the band and recorded the tune with them, rather than just sample their riff. That novelty act should have spelled the end and Hip hop should have quietly died in 1986.

Hip hop is going to run out of those great riffs to sample, because these indie rock bands don't seem to be coming up with too many of them. First...you need to know how to play a guitar (not many rappers do). Then you have to be Eric Clapton. And we are a little shy of contemporary guitar gods. (I've got SRV Live at the El Mocambo 1983 playing on Youtube as I'm writing this so my standards are running slightly high at the moment...sorry)

Hey...I find Slash just as silly to look at with his hat and cigarette doing his posing as any hip hop "performance"....but at least Slash didn't sample Sweet Child of Mine.

 

[MisterF]

Not liking something isn't akin to not understanding it, necessarily. I understand rap, I just think it sounds like garbage and is unoriginal. Phonetically, it takes a lot of skill, but musically it is rubbish. I would rather listen to rap or hip hop, however, over a band like Arcade Fire -- or any indie (genre) band. Indie rock is the most annoying genre of music to listen to. The whole scene is so depressing and neurotic and full of weird, waifish white kids. When I hear an indie song or see a hipster, Pantera's Vulgar Display of Power album cover comes to mind. Freshcutgrass - you didn't mention the Bee Gees and the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack, which came out in 1977. Personally, I'd say the early 70s were better than the latter.

I agree about the hipster indie scene - I find it a complete bore. That said, some of those bands, even if they're not my thing, are great songwriters and musicians. I don't fault people for liking them. As for rap, you have to realize that the musical side of it isn't the point. It's all about the phonetic side. It's the opposite of blues basically, for which focusing on the lyrics would be missing the point.

That list is just the usual suspects...no? Or are you still under the impression I'm sitting in an old folks home play'n my K-tel records and had never heard them?

There's lots of good stuff on there. Plenty missing as well. Great thing about all these indie garage bands, is there's tons of them (bad thing is they almost all sound the same...but that's hipsterism for ya), and hence, lots of local ones. Deadly Snakes Ode to Joy is one of my faves fro 2003.

Well if you don't think anything on that list competes with what was going on in the 70s then you're not going to be convinced. Tool alone competes with what was happening then.

And who said Meatloaf and Foreigner were good?
But 35 years from now, how many albums on that list will be considered "classics" or have sold 40 million units?

I guess I just assumed that since you put them on your teaser list you thought they were good. BTW selling 40 million records is hardly an indication that you're any good. I think we can both agree on that.

 

[Lenser]

Not liking something isn't akin to not understanding it, necessarily. I understand rap, I just think it sounds like garbage and is unoriginal. Phonetically, it takes a lot of skill, but musically it is rubbish. I would rather listen to rap or hip hop, however, over a band like Arcade Fire -- or any indie (genre) band. Indie rock is the most annoying genre of music to listen to. The whole scene is so depressing and neurotic and full of weird, waifish white kids. When I hear an indie song or see a hipster, Pantera's Vulgar Display of Power album cover comes to mind. Freshcutgrass - you didn't mention the Bee Gees and the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack, which came out in 1977. Personally, I'd say the early 70s were better than the latter.

Fair point that you don't have to understand a genre in order to dislike it. But the slams against rap by folks of a certain age suggest a certain malaise lurking within their detractors. As for "indie rock," beyond Arcade Fire, who are you talking about? It's just as absurdly bad as treating rap/hiphop as one monolithic block that has no variation or alteration within it. And can you be really be indie rock when you've sold millions of albums? This reminds me of another empty, catch-all term, "alternative." It was leached of meaning years ago. Now it's a marketing phrase for internet radio programming.

Finally, what are you objections to weird waifish white kids? Surely they deserve an outlet too? You don't have to listen to it. Hell, I always thought Kiss were weird white kids hiding under pounds of ugly makeup. But I was happy for them all the same - they beat the odds. Plenty of bands looked weird and happened to be white - both in the 70s and right now. I don't know what that has to do with whether or not their music was/is any good.