ItsTehBean
New Member
Is there any other pedestrianized zone proposed by the city (other than John and Bloor?)
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MisterF
Senior Member
If you look at the rendering closely, it looks like for all intents and purposes, the sidewalks aren't being widened at all. Sure the outside traffic lanes are being converted to unit pavers, but all the streetlights, planting beds and other street furniture are clear of that area, in what is already the sidewalk. The new, widened area is entirely free of obstacles to traffic. So what we'll actually see is delivery trucks, taxis, and idling cars taking up that entire area while pedestrians are squeezed into the same space they have now. Picture the first rendering with a bunch of other fedex trucks.
If there has to be room for deliveries on Yonge, they should have a limited number of lay-bys and the rest of the widened space should be a pedestrian-only sidewalk. That way you could easily fit street furniture and trees in what is now traffic lanes while still increasing pedestrian space. Street trees are important IMO, they completely change the feel of the street for the better. Trees on roofs or at on cross-streets don't have the same effect.
If there has to be room for deliveries on Yonge, they should have a limited number of lay-bys and the rest of the widened space should be a pedestrian-only sidewalk. That way you could easily fit street furniture and trees in what is now traffic lanes while still increasing pedestrian space. Street trees are important IMO, they completely change the feel of the street for the better. Trees on roofs or at on cross-streets don't have the same effect.
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You can download the reports here:
Context:
http://urbantoronto.ca/picoftheday/...Report_Part I Context and World in Motion.pdf
Recommendations:
http://urbantoronto.ca/picoftheday/...port_Part II Concepts and Recommendations.pdf
Context:
http://urbantoronto.ca/picoftheday/...Report_Part I Context and World in Motion.pdf
Recommendations:
http://urbantoronto.ca/picoftheday/...port_Part II Concepts and Recommendations.pdf
MetroMan
Senior Member
Thanks for hosting those interchange42.
Part of your statement is right, but not in favour of your argument. Yonge is the busiest street in Toronto -- in fact, all of Canada. It's busy with pedestrians.
Given that your premise was that it's busy and it should be catered to such traffic, then catering to pedestrian traffic is the way to go. There are far busier streets for motor traffic in Toronto.
Part of your statement is right, but not in favour of your argument. Yonge is the busiest street in Toronto -- in fact, all of Canada. It's busy with pedestrians.
Given that your premise was that it's busy and it should be catered to such traffic, then catering to pedestrian traffic is the way to go. There are far busier streets for motor traffic in Toronto.
androiduk
Senior Member
I think it would serve more purposes to have a 3rd lane running down the centre rather than those cut-outs. Delivery vehicles could stop in the centre without impeding traffic, left turns would be allowed at all intersections, again without impeding traffic and traffic could bypass taxis, etc. when they're blocking the main driving lane.
khris
Senior Member
Left turns at all intersections? Nooooo. If they allowed that, the middle lane would be backed up with cars, eventually pulling out into the active lane, therefore making the active lane come to a standstill at certain intersections. Like Dundas for example, or Queen. Bad idea.
As for the trees. I do not want to see Yonge tree lined downtown. It would not fit the feel of it at all. Not to mention how busy the sidewalks are. There's no room for trees, even if the sidewalks are made bigger.
As for the trees. I do not want to see Yonge tree lined downtown. It would not fit the feel of it at all. Not to mention how busy the sidewalks are. There's no room for trees, even if the sidewalks are made bigger.
MetroMan
Senior Member
This is exactly what is happening. There are lay-by cutouts in the sidewalks for deliveries which opens up the existing sidewalk closer to buildings for patios and other outside market opportunities. Patios on Yonge. Yes!
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
Androiduk, it would be difficult to do a delivery from the centre of the street. It would actually be just as disruptive, because the people making the delivery would have to walk out onto oncoming traffic to get to the sidewalk.
More details have to be provided, but it looks decent - certainly an improvement from what we have now. It's not quite as impressive as the Bloor street redo but, then again, they have much less space to play around with here. I don't think they should waste any more sidewalk space with planters (which will probably just be a magnet for cigarette butts and trash) and they might as well cut a few feet off the sidewalk widening to allow for a proper bike lane. The intersection with Gould certainly looks really nice.
More details have to be provided, but it looks decent - certainly an improvement from what we have now. It's not quite as impressive as the Bloor street redo but, then again, they have much less space to play around with here. I don't think they should waste any more sidewalk space with planters (which will probably just be a magnet for cigarette butts and trash) and they might as well cut a few feet off the sidewalk widening to allow for a proper bike lane. The intersection with Gould certainly looks really nice.
androiduk
Senior Member
I should have said all existing left turns would be preserved. With one lane in each direction I doubt they will allow left turns since it would be so disruptive. If that's the case, there will be more right hand turns by people trying to get off the street and going around the block, etc. and right hand turns are just as disruptive because of all the pedestrian traffic that makes right turns incredibly slow. The centre lane would allow cars to go around right turning vehicles. As far as deliveries go, most of the ones I see are small and either hand carried or on a dolly. Large deliveries tend to use the rear lane or sidestreets.
MetroMan
Senior Member
A second entrance/exit for Dundas Station is an integral part of this revitalization. It is the most likely component to definitely happen. Losing lanes and pedestrian weekends is certainly going to encounter resistance in a Ford City Hall. Interestingly, there seems to be provisions for this with temporary trials such as was done on Broadway in NYC. Planters and painted roadway. It will likely be 3 years before anything permanent is done, at which point Ford may be out.
On a related note, I heard some time ago that Ryerson was interested in purchasing the Empress Hotel property. Does anybody know how that's going? I don't have any Ryerson sources (yet).
On a related note, I heard some time ago that Ryerson was interested in purchasing the Empress Hotel property. Does anybody know how that's going? I don't have any Ryerson sources (yet).
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
None that i have heard about.
AoD
AoD
MetroMan
Senior Member
It's an incredible opportunity to create a proper gateway into Ryerson. The current project is already doing marvels to that effect but a similar building on the opposite side would be great and would help offset the grieving at the loss of the Empress Hotel. I would hate to see a shitty cheap purely commercial replacement put there.
This would also be the thread to inquire as to the fate of the SAM's sign. It was -- and should be in the future -- an important element of this stretch of Yonge St. I recently thought that a fitting home for it would be above the HMV. I'm sure they'd love to have such an iconic piece and would gladly take it off Ryerson's hands which is probably struggling to find a place for it in a student oriented building.
This would also be the thread to inquire as to the fate of the SAM's sign. It was -- and should be in the future -- an important element of this stretch of Yonge St. I recently thought that a fitting home for it would be above the HMV. I'm sure they'd love to have such an iconic piece and would gladly take it off Ryerson's hands which is probably struggling to find a place for it in a student oriented building.
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Actually now that Empress is gone I do prefer to see the site used a bit more intensively - just to hide that ugly and cheap 10 Dundas facade.
I wonder how the arson investigation is going. I would prefer to see rewards for developing this site going to innocent parties.
AoD
I wonder how the arson investigation is going. I would prefer to see rewards for developing this site going to innocent parties.
AoD
MisterF
Senior Member
Interesting - the plan doesn't match up with the rendering. The rendering shows all the planters pushed back from the new part of the sidewalk, leaving room for cars. The plans show planters along the edge, forming a physical barrier.
As the recommendations say, they're going for what Kitchener did: rolled curbs and flexible sidewalk space that would be street parking in the winter, sidewalk in the summer. It works well for Kitchener - street parking adds a level of activity to a street that can get pretty quiet in the winter - but I don't see the need for it on Yonge. Street parking isn't needed since the sidewalks are busy all year. IMO, they need permanent widening, not summer-only widening.
Street trees don't have to use much space - no more than a planting bed. Here's an idea: instead of having the patios next to the buildings, have the street trees and patios in the same amenity strip area along the street edge. Something like this. That still leaves plenty of room for widened sidewalks. Yeah I know, our nanny liquor laws get in the way...
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
There was a news report just this week that the arson investigation is an ongoing, "open case" file but there are no suspects.