Yonge Street Revitalization (Downtown Yonge BIA/City of Toronto)

[taal]

I think the influence of more affluent people living in the neighborhood (particularly those from Aura, Five, etc) will naturally lead to fewer "super-low-end" stores - and hopefully allow for interesting independent shops (rather than a strip of dentists/dry-cleaners or chain mall stores)

hmm, not sure why you'd think we'd get that either way, that already doesn't exist.

btw this whole dentist/dry-cleaner argument doesn't pan out for the most part. That is in areas that can support more interesting retail (even in the base of condos) that's what we get. A really good example of this is a recent NYCC development, the base is now full of small restaurants / cafes / and the like, and maybe a dentist or two which is fine ...

Generally what happens in other areas where condos just go up and there's not much really that's all the has any chance of surviving (i.e. the dry-cleaners and the like) as there's no foot traffic outside the building alone (or maybe 2 or 3 in the complex), and that's not enough.

 

[adma]

btw this whole dentist/dry-cleaner argument doesn't pan out for the most part. That is in areas that can support more interesting retail (even in the base of condos) that's what we get. A really good example of this is a recent NYCC development, the base is now full of small restaurants / cafes / and the like, and maybe a dentist or two which is fine ...

Though up there, the Asian-leaning demographics favour (motivated?) such retail...

 

[taal]

Though up there, the Asian-leaning demographics favour (motivated?) such retail...

hmm, interesting argument. In theory there's not too much that seems as if it would be demographic specific. Small cafes are common downtown so are small retail stores, so I can't see why this wouldn't occur any areas not dominated by the particular demographic in question.

It's actually rather interesting as the particular development I'm referring too has a couple traditionally (hmm, white?) establishments i.e. a sports bar and it did happen to take the largest space

 

[lead82]

Nothing will happen until Twiddledee and Twidledum are evicted from office. Spending money on people is a non-starter with the current administration at city hall, especially if it involves removing car lanes! That's craziness.

 

[Ummagumma66]

Toronto needs a Pedestrian Only street, or a street like Stephen Ave in Calgary where during the day its Pedestrian only and at night its a one way.

 

[CanadianNational]

It's great to see that there's people out there seriously thinking about this. It's long overdue. Wonderful news.

Widened sidewalks with one lane each way, as the report mentions, is a reasonable expectation. Big trees, good street furniture, good paving...all of these would work wonders.
With trees softening the view and a well-crafted streetscape underfoot , I think both the existing retail and architecture would seem far more pleasing and interesting, and take some of the pressure off for gentrification. The sidewalks are so packed now, it really does seem ridiculous to have cars taking up so much space.

It would be really bold to see Yonge Street throughly pedestrianized and turned into a linear park. That would radically invert the definition of Yonge and turn it from a dividing line into a long city centre.
Fully pedestrianized routes don't always work though. Sometimes they become more inert than expected.

The talk of big box retail makes me nervous, even if it is elevated off street level.

Dundas to Gerrard is a great start - but personally, I'd like to see a reno done all the way from Queen's Quay to Bloor. Maybe in stages?!

 

[taal]

Toronto needs a Pedestrian Only street, or a street like Stephen Ave in Calgary where during the day its Pedestrian only and at night its a one way.

Maybe, maybe not ... from my experience, not referring to Calgary specifically, but pedestrian only streets tend to be less vibrant on the whole. That is, for special events or the like of course they're great. But in general it leads to less activity of all sorts the rest of the time. To be fair, they can still be very vibrant, but just compared to the non-pedestrian alternatives ...

 

[taal]

It's great to see that there's people out there seriously thinking about this. It's long overdue. Wonderful news.

Widened sidewalks with one lane each way, as the report mentions, is a reasonable expectation. Big trees, good street furniture, good paving...all of these would work wonders.
With trees softening the view and a well-crafted streetscape underfoot , I think both the existing retail and architecture would seem far more pleasing and interesting, and take some of the pressure off for gentrification. The sidewalks are so packed now, it really does seem ridiculous to have cars taking up so much space.

It would be really bold to see Yonge Street throughly pedestrianized and turned into a linear park. That would radically invert the definition of Yonge and turn it from a dividing line into a long city centre.
Fully pedestrianized routes don't always work though. Sometimes they become more inert than expected.

The talk of big box retail makes me nervous, even if it is elevated off street level.

Dundas to Gerrard is a great start - but personally, I'd like to see a reno done all the way from Queen's Quay to Bloor. Maybe in stages?!

Big box is great ... why not ! and ensure they have the parking to boot. You want to attract everyone ... why can't we intermix ? This way you'll get people in the surrounding area who would otherwise drive to suburban locations to satisfy their big box cravings to stay in the core, let it be driving or walking. Now if you argue this hurts other business in the core (i.e. whatever's underneath) then that's a valid point. So some care needs to be taken.

Regarding the linear park, don't forget, there is a small not so amazingly kept linear park just to east i.e. 5 or 10 steps to the east, not sure exactly where it goes. From roughly Gerrard down ? So I don't think there's really a need for that.

Wider sidewalks (and two lanes if need be ... which I think is the case) would be great.


I think the rest would / will happen naturally as time progresses even without any of this i.e. I hope / think we'll see gentrification on yonge north of Dundas. I do see a place for the sort of stores that currently populate the street but (per my posts in the Chicago thread) this is the what many consider the heart of Toronto currently and is our face to the world. Even when currently many other streets are just or more interesting.

 

[Silence&Motion]

I love the grittiness of Yonge but the average tourist doesn't. Yonge should cater to tourists as silly as that sounds.

It does sound silly. I think this is one of the worst strategies of city building. Neighbourhoods that are built for tourists rather than locals are more often than not soulless failures. That's the kind of city building that gives us convention centres, sports arenas and Planet Hollywoods. But all of the neighbourhoods that tourists really want to visit (the ethnic and gay neighbourhoods, and the Greenwich Villages and Montmartres of the world) were originally developed by locals for locals.

That said, I see nothing wrong with this proposal. I think a good precedent for Yonge street is Granville Street in Vancouver, which was reduced to two lanes and "revitalized", but maintains its low- to mid-rise, gritty, heritage storefronts: http://dd.ourvfs.com/dd16matthew/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/IMG_5835.jpg

 

[ShonTron]

King Street in Kitchener is a great precedent, the plans are very similar with the parking and sidewalk arrangements:

 

[nfitz]

King Street in Kitchener is blessed by having a major parallel artery one short block in each direction - and the main strip itself can then be relatively traffic free.

Yonge Street doesn't have this advantage.

Wow, sure looks better in those pictures than last time I was downtown there!

 

[junctionist]

Whatever the vision for Yonge, being limited to the stretch from Dundas to Gerrard can't possibly be very bold. Downtown Yonge needs a transformation up to Bloor Street. The idea of narrowing Yonge and installing bike lanes, wider sidewalks with attractive pavers and street lighting, and trees is probably the best and most functional. The section from the Esplanade to King was once paved with stone blocks, which should be restored as it's an interesting and attractive aspect of our heritage that we had such streets.

 

[snyberTO]

wow - Kitchener looks great. I like their choice of paving, street lamps and lighted bollards - much much better than whats been - and being - installed in the Downtown Yonge BIA zone. I understand the desire to light the sidewalk with smaller additional lamps, but the Yonge scheme has two many vertical poles - and it feels monotonous. Also wish Yonge sidewalks were tinted - white contrasts too much with gum blotches and quickly looks dirty.

 

[ShonTron]

King Street in Kitchener is blessed by having a major parallel artery one short block in each direction - and the main strip itself can then be relatively traffic free.

Yonge does have Bay Street one block west, University three blocks west. Church and Jarvis do the same on the east, and 3 of the 4 are through, Duke and Charles in Kitchener were once planned as one-way arterials, but are now 2+1 lane, two way streets.

 

[taal]

wow - Kitchener looks great. I like their choice of paving, street lamps and lighted bollards - much much better than whats been - and being - installed in the Downtown Yonge BIA zone. I understand the desire to light the sidewalk with smaller additional lamps, but the Yonge scheme has two many vertical poles - and it feels monotonous. Also wish Yonge sidewalks were tinted - white contrasts too much with gum blotches and quickly looks dirty.

Really ? The only thing that I love about Yonge now in terms of the streetscape are the lights! I think they're great ... unlike the lights in Kitchener (and in a lot of other similar redevelopment projects) they're prominent and large and really help with that big city feel. Also having the two sets increases this even more.

That's the only thing I want kept ... everything else can go.