Yonge Street, North York Streetscape Improvements

[ADRM]

I think it's a budget item that would have to go to the full council once in this year's budget process, and again to the newly-elected council in 2019. Based on my understanding, PWIC would be looking at it if it was just an issue of painting bike lanes (like Bloor or Woodbine) but this gets treated differently because it's a full rebuild of Yonge, which is a capital project.

Interesting; I've had multiple conversations with different councillors who are all at least a little fuzzy about what does and does not have to go to PWIC. I do know that this plan was considered by PWIC semi-recently, so I imagine it needs to come back to committee for at least a recommendation at some point, even if it doesn't have the power to kill it.

 

[amnesiajune]

I do know that this plan was considered by PWIC semi-recently, so I imagine it needs to come back to committee for at least a recommendation at some point, even if it doesn't have the power to kill it.

That was the Executive Committee, not PWIC. And the Committee couldn't kill the amendment, it had to be approved by the whole Council (which did approve it, 28-16).

 

[amnesiajune]

Here's the vote, by the way

 

[ADRM]

Here's the vote, by the way

View attachment 128823

Yeah, I'm talking after that vote, though; PWIC considered it at its May meeting, in which it cast aspersions on essentially the plan that staff are now recommending. Motion 1, which was adopted, was all about finding alternatives to cycle tracks and lane reductions on Yonge.

 

[vatche]

How about reimagining all of Yonge from the lake up to past Bloor?

 

[Northern Light]

How about reimagining all of Yonge from the lake up to past Bloor?

Already in the Capital budget.

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/city-of-toronto-capital-budget-2018.28106/#post-1283167

 

[innsertnamehere]

below the line, but there. The EA is currently in the early stages, we will probably see some consultation soon.

 

[Leo_Chan]

What is stopping the city and the province from re-configuring the Yonge/Hwy 401 interchange to a proper Partial Cloverleaf interchange? Is it the space restraints from the gold course, ravine, and cell tower? Or is the current interchange the same level of pedestrian and cyclist "friendly" as a parclo could be? Is vehicle flow capacity considered?

This really is a weird interchange, it is free flowing for eastbound 401 to north and southbound Yonge, but southbound Yonge to eastbound 401 required a left turn, into a ramp/local street hybrid?

 

[Toronto1834]

The Yonge/ 401 reconfiguration would need to be a joint City-Province project. The City and local Councillor are ready to go, but apparently the province does not see this project as a priority.

 

[11th]

What is stopping the city and the province from re-configuring the Yonge/Hwy 401 interchange to a proper Partial Cloverleaf interchange? Is it the space restraints from the gold course, ravine, and cell tower? Or is the current interchange the same level of pedestrian and cyclist "friendly" as a parclo could be? Is vehicle flow capacity considered?

This really is a weird interchange, it is free flowing for eastbound 401 to north and southbound Yonge, but southbound Yonge to eastbound 401 required a left turn, into a ramp/local street hybrid?

Space constraint, yes. 401 west of Yonge is on a bridge. There's no easy way to turn it into a parclo interchange. Then it seems the majority of eastbound 401 traffic are heading north rather than south on Yonge, so MTO probably wants to keep the ramp as free flowing - that means turning Lord Seaton into an off-ramp is also a no.

 

[amnesiajune]

This really is a weird interchange, it is free flowing for eastbound 401 to north and southbound Yonge, but southbound Yonge to eastbound 401 required a left turn, into a ramp/local street hybrid?

It was built when the Spadina Expressway was still in the works. The expectation was that most people would want to go towards there, not the other way towards the DVP and Scarborough.

Anyways, the city's done a lot to improve it with smart traffic light timing (timing at the lights south of the 401 is based on left turn demand measured at the light north of the 401). I'm not sure that a full rebuild would help much, and because of Hoggs Hollow there will never be any significant bike use no matter how friendly the intersection is.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

The Yonge/ 401 reconfiguration would need to be a joint City-Province project. The City and local Councillor are ready to go, but apparently the province does not see this project as a priority.

The City and local Councillor WERE ready to go,.... but apparently the province, specifically MTO, doesn't want more traffic on THEIR highway.

Province/MTO has threw roadblocks at every (City) EA so far,... with Provincial election coming, MTO is now doing another one of their own BS performance study,.... to stall some more.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Yonge-401 (McDonaldCartierFreeway) was original built in early 1950's as Full Four Leaf Clover,... with all on-ramp/off-ramp traffic movements being free-flowing,.... but with weaving issue as seen,... with eastbound 401 to northbound Yonge weaving with northbound Yonge to westbound 401

With Express-Collector expansion of McDonaldCartierFreeway to modern 401 system,.... Yonge-401 interchange was reconfigured to today's (Partial Clover) ParClov A4 / Diamond Hybrid,.... with dedicated eastbound 401 flyover-Yonge under-401 northbound Yonge off-ramp and northbound Yonge to westbound 401 getting free-flowing 270degree reverse jug-handle on-ramp,... avoiding previous weaving issue!

Space constraint, yes. 401 west of Yonge is on a bridge. There's no easy way to turn it into a parclo interchange. Then it seems the majority of eastbound 401 traffic are heading north rather than south on Yonge, so MTO probably wants to keep the ramp as free flowing - that means turning Lord Seaton into an off-ramp is also a no.

Technically easy to do ParClov A4 here,... but expensive at around $200million mainly for the additional bridge structure over valley,... way outside budget of $50 million.

Some other variants City and consultants considered here: https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2015/pw/bgrd/backgroundfile-85343.pdf

BTW, problem with any ParClov is you'll need signalized intersections,... there's a solution that get rid of both signalized intersections, thus, all on-ramp and off-ramp traffic movements are free-flowing (without weaving),... thus increasing capacity for all traffic movement at Yonge-401 (generally by 50%, 3-times and 4-times),... traffic just zoom-zoom,... and it's pedestrian and cyclist friendly too,.... all for about the same $50 million cost of the City's proposed southbound Yonge to eastbound 401 flyover,... problem is City Staff are chicken!

 

[Leo_Chan]

Yonge-401 (McDonaldCartierFreeway) was original built in early 1950's as Full Four Leaf Clover,... with all on-ramp/off-ramp traffic movements being free-flowing,.... but with weaving issue as seen,... with eastbound 401 to northbound Yonge weaving with northbound Yonge to westbound 401
View attachment 131761

With Express-Collector expansion of McDonaldCartierFreeway to modern 401 system,.... Yonge-401 interchange was reconfigured to today's (Partial Clover) ParClov A4 / Diamond Hybrid,.... with dedicated eastbound 401 flyover-Yonge under-401 northbound Yonge off-ramp and northbound Yonge to westbound 401 getting free-flowing 270degree reverse jug-handle on-ramp,... avoiding previous weaving issue!



Technically easy to do ParClov A4 here,... but expensive at around $200million mainly for the additional bridge structure over valley,... way outside budget of $50 million.
View attachment 131762

Some other variants City and consultants considered here: https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2015/pw/bgrd/backgroundfile-85343.pdf

BTW, problem with any ParClov is you'll need signalized intersections,... there's a solution that get rid of both signalized intersections, thus, all on-ramp and off-ramp traffic movements are free-flowing (without weaving),... thus increasing capacity for all traffic movement at Yonge-401 (generally by 50%, 3-times and 4-times),... traffic just zoom-zoom,... and it's pedestrian and cyclist friendly too,.... all for about the same $50 million cost of the City's proposed southbound Yonge to eastbound 401 flyover,... problem is City Staff are chicken!

What’s the solution for the north set of lights?

 

[11th]

Yonge-401 (McDonaldCartierFreeway) was original built in early 1950's as Full Four Leaf Clover,... with all on-ramp/off-ramp traffic movements being free-flowing,.... but with weaving issue as seen,... with eastbound 401 to northbound Yonge weaving with northbound Yonge to westbound 401
View attachment 131761

With Express-Collector expansion of McDonaldCartierFreeway to modern 401 system,.... Yonge-401 interchange was reconfigured to today's (Partial Clover) ParClov A4 / Diamond Hybrid,.... with dedicated eastbound 401 flyover-Yonge under-401 northbound Yonge off-ramp and northbound Yonge to westbound 401 getting free-flowing 270degree reverse jug-handle on-ramp,... avoiding previous weaving issue!

The picture also shows why EB 401-NB Yonge is configured as free-flowing: look at the traffic volume, vs. that of EB 401 to SB Yonge. It's also a reason why localizing Yonge in the NYCC stretch may not be the wisest idea. It may be to the best interest of condo dwellers, but Yonge serves a regional function, even though it's no longer a provincial highway. (before people jumping in to say Bayview can serve as the alternative, no it can't - the 11 Bayview buses already get messed up every rush hour by the long traffic queue around the 401 interchange.)