Yonge-Dundas Square/Sankofa Square (Brown + Storey Architects)

[Avenue]

The thing about the Dundas Square is that even if you remove all the advertisement it'll still be 'ugly'. The design was uninspired and unpractical and the architect sounds clueless about the human element, which is a cliche.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

To be fair, speculative landlords were letting buildings on these sites rot. At the time, any assembly of the land by private interests was accurately seen as improbable, and certainly would not have led to any public space. The initial plans for the square were ambitious, and despite value engineering and other flaws, the original square was a significant improvement (at least physically, if not always operationally) to the intersection. I think where public officials failed to safeguard the public interest is when they handed control over to a Board of Management, whose mandate was to generate revenue as much as it was to provide a public space. That's how we ended up with the current defacement of the square.

Don't forget 10 Dundas was part of this expropriation deal as well.

The thing about the Dundas Square is that even if you remove all the advertisement it'll still be 'ugly'. The design was uninspired and unpractical and the architect sounds clueless about the human element, which is a cliche.

There are functional issues - but the most egregious design issues with the square - the stage canopy, colonnade and subway entrance was originally intended to much more graceful than the hamfisted, watered-down design; also the design had to accommodate a parking garage underneath as well. From the University of Montreal Canadian Competitions Catalogue:

(UM/B+S)

http://www.ccc.umontreal.ca/fiche_projet.php?lang=en&pId=2274&etape=1

Look at those svelte support columns and compare it to what we got - these crass, massive concrete pillars looking totally out of proportion with the canopy.

AoD

 

[Skeezix]

Don't forget 10 Dundas was part of this expropriation deal as well.

AoD

I didn't forget - the development and the square were all part of the one vision for the intersection. But in terms of 10 Dundas, what existed there before was actually worse than what is there today, and the possibility was redevelopment was, at the time, seen as unlikely given, among other issues, the challenges of property assembly. But I do agree that "10 Dundas is better than the crap that existed before" is the lowest possible bar, and the City really dropped the ball. While it was always conceived of as a giant billboard, for better or for worse, they had the power to nonetheless do something better with the building (and also could have ensured the site didn't site vacant behind cr*ppy hoarding for years).

 

[pman]

I suppose YDS is ugly according to a platonic ideal of beauty, but we’re talking about Toronto here, not Paris or Barcelona. The square is arguably less ugly than most of Toronto - at least it’s not broken down - and it has the virtue of being lively and unabashedly urban, which is better than almost anywhere else in this town.

 

[Irishmonk]

^It's those laughably low standards that doom Toronto to perpetual mediocrity.

 

[Bogtrotter]

A modern Canadian square that isn't necessarily surrounded by attractive historic buildings is Place Riopelle in Montreal, it's near Victoria Sq. and I believe built over the Ville Marie expressway- so it is very urban. They obviously went the more traditional route with a shaded treed section with benches- quite reminiscent of Bryant Park actually-perhaps more so when the trees mature. Off to the side there is an open space with a central fountain which is quite lovely- it has become quite a popular attraction in itself with a display every 30 mins:

lesbeautesdemontreal.com

Daniel Hébert

http://societeagil.org

One difference is that it's not right off a commercial street, however I think if the concept for Dundas was taken more in this direction we would be much better off. In the very least we'd have nice shaded areas to sit.

 

[Skeezix]

I'm okay with Yonge Dundas Square being a square - personally, I don't think it fails unless there are grassy areas and a grove of trees. Frankly, I'd be happy if they just ripped out the latest "improvements", ensured that the tables and chairs are present more often/in greater numbers/all year long, kept the fountains working in nice weather and stopped closing the square off for private functions. It would be nice to start from scratch, but given how unlikely that is, there are cheap, easy things we could do to reclaim the square as usable public space (assuming the political will existed, which it doesn't - even KWT doesn't appear to care).

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I'm okay with Yonge Dundas Square being a square - personally, I don't think it fails unless there are grassy areas and a grove of trees. Frankly, I'd be happy if they just ripped out the latest "improvements", ensured that the tables and chairs are present more often/in greater numbers/all year long, kept the fountains working in nice weather and stopped closing the square off for private functions. It would be nice to start from scratch, but given how unlikely that is, there are cheap, easy things we could do to reclaim the square as usable public space (assuming the political will existed, which it doesn't - even KWT doesn't appear to care).

Also, some of the fundamental issues of the YDS has nothing to do with the square, but everything to do with what's around it. The eastern end in particular has nothing that would sustain intensive activities and knit the square to the surroundings, for one. Just look at how few people cut across the square in the E-W direction, for instance.

AoD

 

[Towered]

Maybe it will just become like Times square, in that only tourists visit it, and Torontonians avoid it completely when possible...or perhaps it already has become that.

I work a 5 minute walk from the intersection, and I already avoid it as much as possible.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I work a 5 minute walk from the intersection, and I already avoid it as much as possible.

Sadly, it is almost unavoidable if you use the TTC.

AoD

 

[interchange42]

I work a 5 minute walk from the intersection, and I already avoid it as much as possible.

What's the reason to avoid it? It may not be pretty… but big deal if it's on the route between where you're coming from and where you're going to?

42

 

[kotsy]

What's the reason to avoid it? It may not be pretty… but big deal if it's on the route between where you're coming from and where you're going to?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Startling Torontonians and visitors alike since ????

AoD

 

[Contra]

Isn't that a proven act? I can recall seeing him on the subway acting quite normal by comparison.

 

[MetroMan]

Something’s happening with the CityTV media tower.

It’s funny because just days earlier, I saw a Christmas ad up.

This made me realize that this particular tower is outdated and disappears in the midst of much flashier and bigger screens.

A full sized vertical screen like the ones at Eaton Centre will go well here. Would be even better if they did something creative like the Coca Cola sign in Times Square. At least a curved screen to match the shape of the torch.

...but who are we kidding? This is Rogers. They haven’t even covered up heir HVAC mess on the roof of the building.

Whatever the case, they’re doing something. That Christmas ad must’ve been a layer below the others. I’ll keep an eye out to see if they start dismantling the billboard box.