Yonge-Dundas Square/Sankofa Square (Brown + Storey Architects)

[LUVIT!]

Hey I have an idea. Don't go to a lovely summery place and come back at the dreariest part of the year. Come back in May. Also let' us stop comparing ourselves to Amsterdam (founded 1275) or any other European for that matter. Having said that Y/D square could have been better but overall has been a success as a public space. It's not as was never intended to be a place to take your dog for a walk or look at the flora and fauna. Although I do think a few more trees/planters/plants could have made the space better.

 

[syn]

Architect of Yonge-Dundas Square describes it as “extraordinarily ugly”

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/03/08/architect-of-yonge-dundas-square-describes-it-as-extraordinarily-ugly.html

I can't help but wonder - what was she expecting?!

What Dundas Square currently is seems very much in line with the vision the city had for it when Brown + Storey were hired.

 

[MisterF]

^Fair point. Dundas Square was a flawed design right from the start. And I'm talking about the square itself, not the advertising around it.

While I really think DS missed its mark (well quite a hash actually), I’m not quite as down on the public realm overall. I actually quite like the hodgepodge nature of Toronto’s major thoroughfares. The miss-matched architecture, overhead wires and clattering streetcars does seem very Toronto- for me anyway. But certainly I wouldn’t describe it as pretty, it actually reminds me more of Queens than anywhere else I've been- just very eclectic. I’d definitely like to see more green-space in the downtown however, ideally in the form of squares or parkettes with mature trees. These spaces really do heighten the appeal of neighbourhoods both visually and quality of living- Berczy is terrific. I’m looking forward to what transpires along the Wellington corridor and at the foot of York- there's a lot of potential there.

The ugly public realm has nothing to do with streetcars. Lots of cities have streetcars but they still have beautiful streetscapes and keep overhead wires to a minimum.

Most of the neighbourhood main streets in Queens have no overhead wires, although some do. In Toronto, most of the neighbourhood main streets do have overhead wires (over and above what's needed for streetcars), while some don't. Big difference.

Hey I have an idea. Don't go to a lovely summery place and come back at the dreariest part of the year. Come back in May. Also let' us stop comparing ourselves to Amsterdam (founded 1275) or any other European for that matter. Having said that Y/D square could have been better but overall has been a success as a public space. It's not as was never intended to be a place to take your dog for a walk or look at the flora and fauna. Although I do think a few more trees/planters/plants could have made the space better.

The streetcar tracks in Amsterdam weren't built in 1275. Neither were the buildings or the bricks that pave the streets or the electrical infrastructure or the monuments or the current design of the square. These things were all done much more recently. Amsterdam's electrical wires were built in the exact same era as Toronto's electrical wires, so Toronto has no excuse. The way our streetscapes look is a result of modern decisions, not the age of the city.

 

[Bogtrotter]

No streetcars in Queens- just overhead subways. I was really commenting more generally on the similar eclectic nature of both cities built form and exposed infrastructure, not specifically on overhead wiring. Personally I do find some appeal in this, I suppose I don't see such things as much a blight as others. That is not to say that Toronto couldn't use a tidying up in some areas, the hydro poles and crooked street lamps would be a good start.

Comparing a modern urban square with no history to centuries old European squares as an example of how it should be done is a little silly. We really need to be looking at modern 20th/21st century examples, I suggested one a couple of pages back.

 

[pman]

While I really think DS missed its mark (well quite a hash actually), I’m not quite as down on the public realm overall. I actually quite like the hodgepodge nature of Toronto’s major thoroughfares. The miss-matched architecture, overhead wires and clattering streetcars does seem very Toronto- for me anyway. But certainly I wouldn’t describe it as pretty, it actually reminds me more of Queens than anywhere else I've been- just very eclectic. I’d definitely like to see more green-space in the downtown however, ideally in the form of squares or parkettes with mature trees. These spaces really do heighten the appeal of neighbourhoods both visually and quality of living- Berczy is terrific. I’m looking forward to what transpires along the Wellington corridor and at the foot of York- there's a lot of potential there.

I think you’re in the majority in Toronto. What any other developed country city would consider unacceptably ugly and horrible is actually celebrated as a charming, edgy, sophisticated eclecticism by many Torontonians. I reiterate - this city will never change and if anyone wants to live somewhere nice they should just leave.

 

[LUVIT!]

Well your an unhappy person and perhaps haven't travelled enough or had enough life experiences. Perhaps you should leave and soon. As someone else has mentioned earlier on this post Toronto is almost always on the 'best' list as is Canada as a whole. Having the edgiest and the most snazzy architecture is fun and lovely and I would love to see more in Toronto but it doesn't make any one 'Happier'

 

[pman]

Well your an unhappy person and perhaps haven't travelled enough or had enough life experiences. Perhaps you should leave and soon. As someone else has mentioned earlier on this post Toronto is almost always on the 'best' list as is Canada as a whole. Having the edgiest and the most snazzy architecture is fun and lovely and I would love to see more in Toronto but it doesn't make any one 'Happier'

You’re right - I find Toronto monumentally depressing and I never should have stayed here. However, at some point you create a life that’s hard to leave. I’m happy to live about five months a year in better cities, and I spent around a week a month in London/NYC over a thirty year period when I was working, so I have a point of comparison which I suspect many Toronto boosters like you lack.

 

[Bogtrotter]

I can't help but wonder - what was she expecting?!

What Dundas Square currently is seems very much in line with the vision the city had for it when Brown + Storey were hired.

Also curious why the city would hire a firm that had such a contrasting vision of what the square should be..?

 

[LUVIT!]

You’re right - I find Toronto monumentally depressing and I never should have stayed here. However, at some point you create a life that’s hard to leave. I’m happy to live about five months a year in better cities, and I spent around a week a month in London/NYC over a thirty year period when I was working, so I have a point of comparison which I suspect many Toronto boosters like you lack.

Well that's great for you. I'm from Vancouver and often spend much of my winters in either Buenos Aires and/or Fort Lauderdale, and other than the cold weather, I'm always very happy to be back in Toronto. To each his or her own. I just don't slag places because I don't like them..I would just get outta Dodge.

 

[pman]

Well that's great for you. I'm from Vancouver and often spend much of my winters in either Buenos Aires and/or Fort Lauderdale, and other than the cold weather, I'm always very happy to be back in Toronto. To each his or her own. I just don't slag places because I don't like them..I would just get outta Dodge.

Yeah, you’re right. If my adult kids ever leave I certainly will. Life’s too short...

 

[differential]

You’re right - I find Toronto monumentally depressing and I never should have stayed here. However, at some point you create a life that’s hard to leave. I’m happy to live about five months a year in better cities, and I spent around a week a month in London/NYC over a thirty year period when I was working, so I have a point of comparison which I suspect many Toronto boosters like you lack.

Toronto is awesome, few cities on this continent are comparable (NYC, LA, Chicago).

Granted all this development does make the city feel like it's under construction, which can be jarring, but the future is exciting.

 

[Mind_the_gap]

Here’s a picture from this afternoon of the monstrosity at Yonge-Dundas. Notice the concrete on the right-most column. This whole addition looks like shit.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Also curious why the city would hire a firm that had such a contrasting vision of what the square should be..?

B+S were chosen precisely because they proposed a YDS that is meant to respond to the surrounding vision while remaining distinct from it.

Not anymore.

AoD

 

[ADRM]

You’re right - I find Toronto monumentally depressing and I never should have stayed here. However, at some point you create a life that’s hard to leave. I’m happy to live about five months a year in better cities, and I spent around a week a month in London/NYC over a thirty year period when I was working, so I have a point of comparison which I suspect many Toronto boosters like you lack.

Yes, hello, unabashed Toronto booster who chose to move from NYC to London to Toronto here, reporting for duty.

 

[pman]

Yes, hello, unabashed Toronto booster who chose to move from NYC to London to Toronto here, reporting for duty.

Christ, why???