RC8
Senior Member
I did mean Gardiner. Outside of those 2 reasons and the occasional accident I never see bunching in that area, and my girlfriend jokes I live in the 510.
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Why Streetcars Make People Crazy! (Picture)
- Thread starter hawc
- Start date
I did mean Gardiner. Outside of those 2 reasons and the occasional accident I never see bunching in that area, and my girlfriend jokes I live in the 510.
drum118
Superstar
Bunching does take place on Spadina 365 day of the year for over 10 years for the following reason:
1) Poor line management;
2) Lakeshore intersection;
3) Ridership load;
4) Riders trying to gain that last inches and not wait for the following car;
5) Riders not having their fare ready before boarding;
6) Drivers who are out for a Sunday drive and not care what they are doing to the schedule;
7) Priority signals not turn on;
8) Too many short turns at King St where the cars get caught up in traffic making the left hand turn there;
9) Poor track work;
Adding to this mess this year is the detour of the 511 Bathurst car that should be done by Aug 15 until TTC has to replace all the poles and overhead system on the Bathurst St bridge. The poles are brace with 4 4x4x4' or 6' and tied back into the bridge railing. On top of that, a section of the bridge including an expansion joint will have to be replace. Number of poles are missing due to removal of the poles, as they have rusted away.
510 is to go on detour at King St to Bathurst St starting the 2nd week in Sept when all the track and ROW is rebuilt from King to QQ as it stands now.
Early in 2012, 510 will only run to King until the new QQ road and ROW is built that will see only 509 buses operating along QQ until the work is finish. Buses will be used going south of King.
Bathurst Bridge
1) Poor line management;
2) Lakeshore intersection;
3) Ridership load;
4) Riders trying to gain that last inches and not wait for the following car;
5) Riders not having their fare ready before boarding;
6) Drivers who are out for a Sunday drive and not care what they are doing to the schedule;
7) Priority signals not turn on;
8) Too many short turns at King St where the cars get caught up in traffic making the left hand turn there;
9) Poor track work;
Adding to this mess this year is the detour of the 511 Bathurst car that should be done by Aug 15 until TTC has to replace all the poles and overhead system on the Bathurst St bridge. The poles are brace with 4 4x4x4' or 6' and tied back into the bridge railing. On top of that, a section of the bridge including an expansion joint will have to be replace. Number of poles are missing due to removal of the poles, as they have rusted away.
510 is to go on detour at King St to Bathurst St starting the 2nd week in Sept when all the track and ROW is rebuilt from King to QQ as it stands now.
Early in 2012, 510 will only run to King until the new QQ road and ROW is built that will see only 509 buses operating along QQ until the work is finish. Buses will be used going south of King.
Bathurst Bridge
44 North
Senior Member
From reading forums and the comment sections on the Star and Globe, it seems a lot of people claim they'd "prefer a bus over a streetcar any day". I don't believe any of that. Streetcars are far more of a comfortable ride than a bus. Smooth, quiet, no hot exhaust blasting in your face while idling...
Perhaps I'm biased being born/raised in the Old City of Toronto, but I don't see how anyone would prefer a bus over a streetcar. A DRL is definitely needed to take some of the load off the system; but streetcars will still be useful by providing high capacity, local service transit.
Perhaps I'm biased being born/raised in the Old City of Toronto, but I don't see how anyone would prefer a bus over a streetcar. A DRL is definitely needed to take some of the load off the system; but streetcars will still be useful by providing high capacity, local service transit.
noctis
Active Member
I don't know what you are talking about nor do I want to fight with it. I am just sharing what I like about my culture, my home country, and I was just hoping that Toronto (being a multicultural city) could learn from that. Being a Canadian and living in Toronto, I want it to improve and be better as well! Anyways, getting carried away here again...how about we start predicting what Toronto will be like in 20 years...
LNahid2000
Senior Member
You can see that every single day during the afternoon rush between Wilson and Downsview.
leopetr
Active Member
Does everyone in this discussion realize that Toronto HAD electric trolleybuses up until 1993?
Replacing streetcar lines with trolleybuses is the wrong way to go about it. First, we should replace some bus routes with trolleybuses to prove the technology, if for no other reason that trolleybuses are indisputably an upgrade over buses. Then, we can consider whether they are good enough to replace anything else.
Replacing streetcar lines with trolleybuses is the wrong way to go about it. First, we should replace some bus routes with trolleybuses to prove the technology, if for no other reason that trolleybuses are indisputably an upgrade over buses. Then, we can consider whether they are good enough to replace anything else.
TTC reports that the 511 route is back to normal as of today; work is done early.
taal
Senior Member
The key is proper headway management, and the TTC cannot do this if their lives depended on it. Forget streetcars, busses are just as bad.
So here's a question, we have many routes with frequencies of 10min of better - let's compare any of them to Viva blue / purple / pink. Which are in the 10min range (or better) during rush hour.
Viva blue @ Finch during rush hour seems to come very sporadically as well, just as bad as the TTC. But looking at pink / purple, further out on Hi-way 7, they seem fairly consistent to the 10 min mark. How can they manage this ?
So here's a question, we have many routes with frequencies of 10min of better - let's compare any of them to Viva blue / purple / pink. Which are in the 10min range (or better) during rush hour.
Viva blue @ Finch during rush hour seems to come very sporadically as well, just as bad as the TTC. But looking at pink / purple, further out on Hi-way 7, they seem fairly consistent to the 10 min mark. How can they manage this ?
hawc
Senior Member
One way streets are a great idea. You can move an entire 4 lanes of traffic in the same direction. Works great on Adelaide and Richmond. I think that's ultimately the traffic future here (like Manhattan) we'll see major roads going entirely one way or another.
As for elevated train lines. That's the last thing we need. If that happens on a large scale I'll move out of the city. It will completely destroy the streetscape. Like building mini Gardiner Expressways everywhere.
Justin10000
Banned
It seems to be fairly easy to managed fairly wide headways, even TTC routes that run 10 minutes or greater run fairly consistently. The problem is quite simple: Congestion. It must be really tough to manage short headways when dealing with unpredictable traffic.
drum118
Superstar
That surprising, as the new platforms at King St were no finish on Friday night and there were still a fair amount of framing to be done before the concrete was to be pour. If crews worked on Sat, the first section of the platform could be pour with the remaining being pour on Tuesday. Still will require work for the end as well building the handrail on the platforms. Either way, these platforms cannot be use by riders today or this week. This would require a temporary stop before the platforms to allow riders off/on.
Come to think of it, never noticed the detour on TTC site last night and never give it a second thought.
If TTC is running cars south of Queen, that means TTC is allowing work to be done under their control with a flag man stopping the streetcars until the construction crews do their thing and then get out of the way.
New southbound platform that was never there before
Replacement of exiting northbound Platform
UserNameToronto
Active Member
I don't ride busses.
Streetcars + LRT please!
Streetcars + LRT please!
doady
Senior Member
Streetcars have worse bunching problem than buses because of the fact that they cannot pass each other or other obstacles. And of course the ridership is much higher well. High ridership = more bunching.
I think the reliability/bunching problems will be much less once they get the new LRVs and implement an honour fare system.
"Headway management" has nothing to do it. Even Mississauga has problems with bunching for 19 Hurontario, 1 Dundas... any heavily-used transit route, whether bus or streetcar, operating in mixed traffic during rush hour with have bunching. That's just a fact of life.
The only way to improve reliability and get rid of bunching is to have grade-separation, ROW and/or honour-fare system or fare-paid zones, like the subway does.
I think the reliability/bunching problems will be much less once they get the new LRVs and implement an honour fare system.
"Headway management" has nothing to do it. Even Mississauga has problems with bunching for 19 Hurontario, 1 Dundas... any heavily-used transit route, whether bus or streetcar, operating in mixed traffic during rush hour with have bunching. That's just a fact of life.
The only way to improve reliability and get rid of bunching is to have grade-separation, ROW and/or honour-fare system or fare-paid zones, like the subway does.
nfitz
Superstar
There's no question that it's happening. You can see on the real-time data: http://whereismystreetcar.appspot.com/#RTE_511
Right now there are 5 streetcars south of Queen and north of Front.
smallspy
Senior Member
They don't - they aren't particularly consistent at any time of the day.
It is not unusual to have to wait 20 minutes for a bus on the Orange - despite headways being 15 minutes or better. Sames goes for the times I've taken Purple - the longest I've seen is 35 minutes.
The rest of the YRT system is no better - they seem to have very few on-street supervisors (preferring to use GPS and staff behind keyboards at the various divisions), and they seem to refuse to short-turn vehicles that are late.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.