GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
Do you honestly think that during the extensive and still-ongoing design and engineering process of this piece of infrastructure no one has considered the elevation changes along the route?
|
|
|
Whose vision of transit in Toronto do you support?
- Thread starter Dan416
- Start date
nfitz
Superstar
Good grief ...
It's been demonstrated time and time again just how wrong you are on that issue. Demand is a bit over 5,000 decades from now. Capacity on that segment is pushing triple that.
You have absolutely no basis for that statement.
And as for being an anti-transit NIMBY ... come on ... you've demonstrated that very well with your Ford support. No candidate has ever been as anti-transit (or anti-intellectual) than he is ... well, perhaps Pol Pot was more anti-intellectual ...
nfitz
Superstar
Are you kidding me? These at-grade LRTs are in suburbia. They don't have city blocks there. Look at the block sizes ... surely that alone invalidates your entire case.
Come on ... even you aren't this dense. You are trolling us again. Or are you going to tell us Kettal has cracked your account?
Fresh Start
Banned
They're fascists because the majority of the citizens do not want Transit City, they did not want the St Clair right-of-way, but the City goes ahead and builds them anyway. If I'm following along correctly fascists can be of all political stripes, so your point is moot. A tyrannical voting bloc that rarely ever grants leeway to right-of-council's fiscally responsible proposals or opinions on matters of public interest sounds awfully fascist to me.
You know damn well that transit in Toronto is not comparable to San Jose ... does this look like what we are building?
That at least guarantees rapid speeds. Building something like that adjacent to our highway corridors (using buses of course) would move a lot of people over great distances in a relatively short time. Like comparing 95 York Mills to the Oshawa Hwy. 2 GO Bus for getting from the Yonge Line to Scarborough Town Centre. Which would you rather? There ought to be frequent scheduled express service equivalents provided by the local transit operator to match those of the premium fare interregional operator.
The problem there is that the demand did not justify the exorbitant pricetag. Overhead wires and tracklaying costs megabucks! I say the same thing about the Finch West and Sheppard East LRTs. The subway was only supposed to go as far as Agincourt before heading southeast to the largest trip generator in Scarborough. Building rail for the sake of rail (as your image demonstrates) is a boneheaded proposition. That same image to the left displays rolling pastures. A 3-4 laned busway could fit such a space making the station stop locations less isolated from surrounding communities than that road-median stop is, thus attracting higher usage.
Fresh Start
Banned
No, not really because even Steve Munro has expressed concern on his blog about how the LRT vehicles will have a tougher time than subway cars making the steep grades that persist along the Eglinton corridor. He also mentioned the design flaws of building a large single bore for LRT vs smaller twin bores for subways which would result in less expropriation and upheaval for the residents and businessowners along the corridor. When I find the exact references I will post them here.
Fresh Start
Banned
So the Golden Mile doesn't have city blocks now? Oh and can you imagine the length of time it'll take a 4-car behemoth to pull up to an intersection, wait, pass through the intersection, then on-load/off-load since the majority of proposed TC stops will be farside as opposed to near-side? Probably 80 seconds at least, and times that by 30 stops average for each line, I think Eglinton has 39 last I checked. I love how whenever concerned citizens dare to question "authority" they're accused of being NIMBYs and trolls.
And this is based on what?
nfitz
Superstar
As you can see in the picture, there is rural land (desert almost) everywhere. Finch and Sheppard East aren't that devoid of anything.
As for your interesting new definition of fascist ... I must say I had previously underestimated the quality of our community colleges.
nfitz
Superstar
No, it doesn't. A city block is about 90 to 100 metres. The large blocks along Eglinton East are about 800 metres; normally with only 2 cross streets in between. So that's about 270 metre blocks. It's completely different. You can easily get two 4-car trains in here. The claim that the ultimate capacity of LRT is only 4,500 passengers per hour is so utterly bizarre that I can only think you are trolling us.
It's based on his years and years of anti-transit votes and comments, and his years and years of run-ins with the law, drinking, bigotry, abuse, and sexism. The man is not an intellectual, and he's very anti-transit. I'm surprised you'd even challenge that!
Dan416
Senior Member
False. We are building a partially grade separated LRT line on Eglinton.
nfitz
Superstar
however the segment that matches the first phase of that 1969 plan is almost entirely grade-separated and in a subway.
Dan416
Senior Member
You mean in a tunnel, yes it's in a tunnel.
nfitz
Superstar
Yes ... in a tunnel ... a subway ... a tube. Whatever you want to call it.
Either way, it offers subway-like speeds, subway like (or better frequencies) ... if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
Fresh Start
Banned
I was born to bleed, fighting to succeed, built to endure what this world throws at me! I am impervious to your flames, so you may as well clam down and start debating with me rationally. 4500pphpd is based on the built design model of 3-car LRT train carrying a maximum of 450 passengers per trip, 10 trips per peak hour, which was explained on the previous page. Here's my source: http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/99B33DE1-5554-4DF0-B187-104802C61631/0/EconomicImpactStudy.pdf. You can't get higher capacity without adding more cars to a trainset or operating more frequently than once every 6 minutes.
And although the spaces between cross-streets are further apart in the suburbs you still have numerous driveways to local businesses to contend with that whole stretch. You'd be blocking off their access as well. Of course given the land use adjacent the corridor it wouldn't be unfeasible to trench or elevate the line if even at a marginally higher capital expense which would more than pay for itself via the increased patronage grade separation attracts vs. road median exposed waiting areas.
Anyway, gotta go finish packing. I'm off on my vacation to Cottage Country and Algonquin Park for the rest of week. Ciao!
Last edited:
nfitz
Superstar
Doesn't the very fact that your conclusion of 4,500 maximum per hour conflicts with every report every prepared by a professional on the subject suggest to you that your wrong?
Clearly you can get more than 1 vehicle every 6 minutes through the system!
As far as driveways ... you will only be able to turn right. This is shown clearly on the cross-sections and in the report. Page XV of the TPA "Left turns across the LRT tracks will only be permitted at designated signalized intersections."
This would appear to be the root cause of your wrong calculation on maximum frequency.
For a plan that you protest so much, I'm surprised how unaware you are.
Clearly you can get more than 1 vehicle every 6 minutes through the system!
As far as driveways ... you will only be able to turn right. This is shown clearly on the cross-sections and in the report. Page XV of the TPA "Left turns across the LRT tracks will only be permitted at designated signalized intersections."
This would appear to be the root cause of your wrong calculation on maximum frequency.
For a plan that you protest so much, I'm surprised how unaware you are.
Dan416
Senior Member
In the tunnel yes, but it'll be limited by it's non-grade separated section. And fyi nobody would ever use "subway" in that way. I bet if you looked it up it'd be "archaic" or "British" or something. You'll only see "subway" written in that context on old infrastructure.