Whose vision of transit in Toronto do you support?

[W. K. Lis]

I know LRT can be automated but only if the thing is completely grade separated so it is no good for TC. The primary benefit of automation is savings in wages but that is not applicable to TC.

If you have actually read the EA's for Eglinton Crosstown and the Scarborough Rapid Transit LRT conversion, you'll see that there is provision for automation, for the sections where it is separated. As in other places in the world, before the LRV's go at grade, control is given over to the driver's and vise-versa. It is applicable to TC.

 

[EnviroTO]

LRT also has higher operational costs as it, unlike subways, cannot be automated and the tracks last twice as long.

Absolute nonsense. LRT and subway trains are the same thing but a different scale in terms of weight and capacity. There are plenty of automated LRT systems. There are even systems where buses enter a guide-way and become automated for part of their route. Also the length of time tracks last is determined by how it is constructed and how exposed to the elements it is. A subway running outside on tracks equivalent to ones an LRT is running on will wear down those rails faster than the LRT because it is heavier. Subway tracks not exposed to the elements and built with straighter alignment will last longer than outdoor LRT tracks which are curvy, built at a lower cost, and exposed to weather.

 

[EnviroTO]

Can anybody imagine if we were building the Bloor-Danforth today and people had argued that a tunnel in the core would be sufficient?

In a way they did do that. They built the subway from Keele to Woodbine which is almost the same length of underground they are building now on Eglinton, but unlike then the Eglinton plan will have people stay on the same vehicle to continue east and west rather than exit the subway. On the Bloor line people were force to exit the subway at Keele or Woodbine to board the Bloor or Danforth streetcars which more closely matches what will be happening on Sheppard.

 

[Justin10000]

I know LRT can be automated but only if the thing is completely grade separated so it is no good for TC. The primary benefit of automation is savings in wages but that is not applicable to TC.

Again, not true.

ATO/ATC can be set up that LRVs will stop at the portal, and the driver takes over.

 

[Second_in_pie]

In a way they did do that. They built the subway from Keele to Woodbine which is almost the same length of underground they are building now on Eglinton, but unlike then the Eglinton plan will have people stay on the same vehicle to continue east and west rather than exit the subway. On the Bloor line people were force to exit the subway at Keele or Woodbine to board the Bloor or Danforth streetcars which more closely matches what will be happening on Sheppard.

...Until they got subway 10 years later, which will definitely not be happening on Eglinton with the investment they're putting in LRT-izing possible extensions of the line. Would you argue today that the B-D outside Keele and Woodbine would have been better to just been left to the streetcars, maybe going into talks for conversion to subway today? I doubt you would.

 

[fanoftoronto]

Actually, the extensions to Islington and Warden were finished 2 years after the Bloor Danforth subway opened. And yes, the extensions would not be made today if they had a choice, so I won't keep my fingers crossed on a Eglinton crosstown subway ever if the LRT is constructed.

 

[Dan416]

Let's not forget the one-stop extension to Kipling in 1980.

 

[gweed123]

...Until they got subway 10 years later, which will definitely not be happening on Eglinton with the investment they're putting in LRT-izing possible extensions of the line. Would you argue today that the B-D outside Keele and Woodbine would have been better to just been left to the streetcars, maybe going into talks for conversion to subway today? I doubt you would.

I wonder, if an Eglinton-style proposal had been built along B-D in the late 60s early 70s, would there still be support for LRT in this city. Had that actually have been done, the city would have drowned in its own short-sightedness. Too bad the planners from the 60s aren't still working today, then we may have actually gotten a transit plan that won't need half of it replaced/upgraded in 20 years (if that).