We HATE Toronto!

[jb007]

GraphicMatt-

What i meant with that is im not a big fan of our immigration rules. This is relevant for the whole country; not TO specifically. I dont believe we have as big of an immigration problem as the U.S, UK, France, Germany; but i expect the best from Canada.

I find that the many of our immigrants are unskilled or/and have skills that are not needed or are not being utilized effectively. An interesting site mentioned on the forum here comes to mind (www.notcanada.com + http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20070409_104114_104114).

I've met teachers, doctors, engineers even some ex-professional athletes from other countries who came to canada and are working as taxi drivers, construction workers, waiters, cashiers, timhortons or customer service agents. Its a disgrace to our country and an insult to the "skilled" foreigners.
When this happens our reputation around the world takes a beating. Why would truly skilled foreingers want to come to Canada when they hear such things? i sure wouldnt

Many here will tell me that no rules are perfect and things like this happen everwhere; but i disagree. We shouldnt allow immigrants to stay in canada without a job thats directly related to their skill set. In fact we shouldnt let them stay in the country for more than 3 months. If our gov wants these ppl so bad and their skills are in such high demand then they should gaurantee them jobs or help find them some within the allocated time.

If you want a system that works look at Singapore. One of the smallest country's in the world. They dont even have any natural resources (they import water from malaysia) yet they have some of the most highly skilled foreigners on the planet and the 5th highest gdp per capita in the world.
They dont give work permits to anyone without a job. You may enter the country but if you dont find something suitable matching your skills and above a certain income level - your kicked out.

The problem with canada is we are bringing in the wrong people - be it foreign educated students or workers. It appears like the people making these decisions have never lived abroad.

btw, I am Canadian and my grandparents mmigrated to canada in the 60s; and im not trying to put Canada down. I just want it improved. sry for the long post

 

[Long Island Mike]

Some more Chicago insight...

TOVibe: First question-what is the address of that shop you mentioned?
You are right about Chicago-because it does tend to be segregated some people never end up in some of those rough neighborhoods but they can be in for a quick wake-up when they do...

When you mention Indianapolis you actually mean Indianapolis Boulevard which goes to the Indiana state line and then S (US 41) I believe.
LI MIKE

 

[Torontovibe]

TOVibe: First question-what is the address of that shop you mentioned?
You are right about Chicago-because it does tend to be segregated some people never end up in some of those rough neighborhoods but they can be in for a quick wake-up when they do...

When you mention Indianapolis you actually mean Indianapolis Boulevard which goes to the Indiana state line and then S (US 41) I believe.
LI MIKE

I don't know. We just took a subway ride south to the end of the line. IS that 95th street? It was just across the street from the subway station, after the McDonald's. It was a huge discount store, like a dollar plus store but they had lots of cool things I've never seen in Toronto, including the coolest 5 dollar sun glasses I've ever seen. It was in a strip mall. We actually went back our last day, just before leaving Chicago, mainly to stock up on the sun glasses and some other cool stuff.
Funny thing was, while the area was all black, the owners of the stores were all Indian and Chinese. (although black people worked in the store, they were not so happy to serve us, so the owner came over to help us) It was the owner who told my boyfriend in Chinese, to leave right away. He really spooked my boyfriend because within seconds after their conversation, my boyfriend said, We're leaving, NOW! Then we spend 2 hours lost, driving in circles. lol He was pissed!

No, when I mentioned Indianapolis, I meant the state. Gary Indiana is almost an extension of South Chicago, and looks kinda like it. (Well, from a distance. I wanted to see it but my bf was too chicken-shit to stop, for a short look. I only saw it from the highway)

 

[adma]

I think there's some underlying thingie with Toronto that, in its heart, realizes that all this great-historical-event hoopla is overrated bunk. And at our best, we're just watching other places the way Dan Levy and Jessi Cruickshank watch "The Hills". Not a bad place to be--as those happy TIFF-goers know, we're the ultimate anti-NY/LA sleeper metropolis...

 

[Archivist]

Earlier this week I sat on the bleachers in the Isadore and Rosalie Sharp City Room at the Four Seasons Centre, listening to a librarian give a short speech about the opera Fidelio. Surrounded by like-minded people of good cheer, all sitting on our winter jackets, my eye couldn't help but being drawn to the view outside the building. There on University were eight rows of traffic (and damn it all for this avid walker and anti-car enthusiast - sometimes traffic is the most exhileratingly beautiful thing to see) - red pulses of light moving away from me in bursts timed by the lights, white coming the other way, like bloodcells timed to a beating heart. The beacon on the Canada Life madly signalling two rows of upward moving white lights, again and again, an obsessive-compulsive giving us notice of something coming our way. Indistinct shuffles of people along Queen Street, and the occassional streetcar moving gracefully through the intersection. Then I would look again into the warm wood of the Four Seasons, the smiles on people's faces, the anticipation of drama and music, and I swear to God that my eyes misted over with the sheer joy and urban fabulousness of the whole scene. A time to be completely in the moment, and completely in love with this great burg of ours.

Or perhaps it was simply the great company. Could have been.

Anyways, pooh to anyone who doesn't have these moments, I pity you for your cringes over this and that, your convictions that it's better somewhere else, your concerns with what we are lacking rather than what we have.

 

[calimehtar]

I think a major defining characteristic of the city is creativity. Before I moved here, I had been to the city only once briefly, and my impression of it was shaped more by the news: I think I imagined it as an amorphous, sprawling white suburb... The reality was much more interesting: great live music scene, lots of art galleries, locally-design fashions and furniture , easy to find inexpensive food from all over the world, etc.

In any case, not having a lot of significant history (as Rome does) or spectacular architecture (as Chicago does) hardly means that Toronto is a bad city. Great cities should have their own image defined in terms unique to them. Ie Montreal's slogan is not "we have some nice buildings, not quite like New York, but still..."

 

[lordmandeep]

^ maybe I'm not so well read. I only recognize Hemingway, Atwood and Group of seven. I think for those foreigners, they would probably only recognize Hemingway.



I agree history have some values. I enjoy their art and architecture of the period and the romantic feel. But it isn't all the wars fought and what not that makes it attractive. Italy is probably one of the most memorable European countries I visited.

That is true but when we think of Italy we always, always always think of the city of Rome even though Milan is the more developed city.
The main reason for that is because simply of its past. We remember the famous buildings and that a 1000 civilization was named after it, No Western city has that.

 

[jb007]

Archivist - nicely written. It is true I/many complain but it is a great city nonethless. Moments like that are a great reminder. Everyone should pause talk a deep breathe and just sit and watch the city move about.

 

[Tewder]

Then I would look again into the warm wood of the Four Seasons, the smiles on people's faces, the anticipation of drama and music, and I swear to God that my eyes misted over with the sheer joy and urban fabulousness of the whole scene. A time to be completely in the moment, and completely in love with this great burg of ours.

Or perhaps it was simply the great company. Could have been.

Anyways, pooh to anyone who doesn't have these moments, I pity you for your cringes over this and that, your convictions that it's better somewhere else, your concerns with what we are lacking rather than what we have.

Nice post Archivist and it reminds us that how we do view things is often a choice.

Toronto may be short on the stuff of great-man history--battles, disasters, misery and the like. That I concede. But the notion that "nothing has ever happened" in TO is plainly absurd. Toronto's per capita rate of significant cultural output is probably the highest in the world. It is a city that has been home to (in no particular order) Ernest Hemingway, the Group of Seven, Glenn Gould, Robertson Davies, Marshall McLuhan, Northrop Frye, Margaret Atwood, Joni Mitchell, Michael Ondaatje, Rohinton Mistry, Broken Social Scene, Naomi Klein, Irshad Manji, Richard Florida, Thomas Homer-Dixon, Anne Michaels, David Cronenberg, Atom Egoyan, Norman Jewison, Frank Gehry...the list goes on.

Our city has featured in, influenced, or hosted a substantial chunk of the most important cultural work of the last 100 years. Toronto has had a staggering cultural impact. Maybe if we paid more attention to that, we'd have a bit more pride.

Agreed. Once again it's a matter of whether we choose to confer importance on any of these things or not, to 'mythologize' so to speak. Important moments of history and culture happen around us all the time yet most of us are incredibly blind to it all which to me is the heart of the problem. If we don't recognize these things or care about them how do we expect anyone else to?

 

[Long Island Mike]

More about South Side Chicago locales...

Torontovibe: Which CTA line did you take? I am quite familiar with the CTA Rapid Transit because my uncle worked for the CTA as a Train Operator from 1958-1986. Because of that and my interest in rail transit I got to know and use the CTA rail and bus system quite well.

Did you take the Dan Ryan line S to 95th Street which is mostly in the median of the expressway of the same name-now known as the Red Line?

Or-was it one of the elevated lines-now known as the Green Line-that splits near its end and terminates at either 63/Ashland(Englewood) or 63/Stony Island(Jackson Park)?

I will mention that those lines go thru some of the roughest S Side neighborhoods-I recall that 43/Indiana was the literal heart of the S Side ghetto back in my Chicago visiting days. I tended to avoid those routes because of where they traveled thru in favor of the faster - and safer - Dan Ryan Line. If you went to those stores there at the end of those lines,those shopkeepers did you a favor by telling you to leave as soon as you could.
I have heard those places can be even rougher nowadays.

Mentioning Gary,Indiana-I understand the similarity because of the high-percentage Black population - more then 75 percent - and due to the fact that Gary has its trouble spots as well.

Where did you park your car-near one of those CTA stations or elsewhere?
Which neighborhoods were you visiting in? I am sure that you will NEVER make that mistake again!

I recall in my Chicago travels that I never was looking for any trouble but in those tough neighborhoods where you are an outsider-especially on a racial basis-trouble can find YOU if you are not aware or careful.

- Insight and some memories from LI MIKE -

 

[jaycola]

The rest of the world sees Toronto for what is really is.

The rest of the world sees Toronto for what is really is. An economic powerhouse with a high quality of life and vibrant Arts and cultural comminuty and a tremendously diverse population.

The world's top cities offering the best quality of life
Toronto Ranks 15th
http://www.citymayors.com/features/quality_survey.html

Best Places in the world to live Toronto ranks 15th
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/08/06/0611_mercer/index_01.htm?chan=rss_topSlideShows_ssi_5

Toronto named as a well Rounded Global Cities
Very large contribution: London and New York Smaller contribution and with cultural bias: Los Angeles, Paris and San Francisco
Incipient global cities: Amsterdam, Boston, Chicago, Madrid, Milan, Moscow, Toronto
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/rb/rb146.html

Forbes Magazine World's Most Economically Powerful Cities
Toronto Ranks 10th
http://www.forbes.com/2008/07/15/economic-growth-gdp-biz-cx_jz_0715powercities_slide_11.html

Mastercard Report Names 50 Cities as Hubs of the New Worldwide Economy
Toronto Ranks 12th
http://www.mastercard.com/nz/general/en/press_office/070613.html

Top 15 Skylines In The World.
Toronto Ranks 7th
http://citynoise.org/article/3432

I am sure we could find more. If you can't find something about Toronto you like, I think you should get out of the house and see the city...

 

[ganjavih]

In any case, not having a lot of significant history (as Rome does) or spectacular architecture (as Chicago does) hardly means that Toronto is a bad city. Great cities should have their own image defined in terms unique to them. Ie Montreal's slogan is not "we have some nice buildings, not quite like New York, but still..."

But the lack of those things makes it a bit of a challenge. You have to dig a little deeper to enjoy Toronto, like Archivist's opera experience for example. You have to actively go out and seek it. Toronto is not a city that knocks your socks off in the first five minutes of walking its streets, like a Chicago or New York would do... or even Montreal.

 

[allabootmatt]

@Ganjavih:

An honest, non-deprecating question: what is so sock-knocking about Montreal? Seriously. I have never 'gotten it.' Montreal is a perfectly nice city and all and I enjoy spending time there, but it has never seemed notably more impressive than Toronto to me in any significant way--quite a bit less so, in fact. The vaunted Main seems like a low-rent version of Bloor or Queen, Ste-Catherine is unbelievably tacky (and downright dodgy) within minutes of the very centre of downtown, and the architecture--like Toronto's--is a mix of the sublime and the ghastly, usually in direct juxtaposition.

Or are you talking about Old Montreal, mostly?

 

[AKS]

I found Montreal boring. I was kind of glad to be back in Toronto really. Good thing I only stayed a few days. I haven't been to Quebec City, but it might be more interesting from the photos I've seen.

 

[ganjavih]

I wrote "even Montreal" because I mean it less so than the more showy cities like New York and Chicago. Montreal doesn't really knock your socks off, but it has picturesque streetscapes that might grab you in a more immediate way than anything in Toronto. Old Montreal is a good example, but I wasn't thinking of any specific location.

I'll be the first to criticise Montreal's inadequacies, but it does have a charm and ambiance that Toronto doesn't. And I say this as someone who prefers Toronto to Montreal.