Waterloo Region Transit Developments (ION LRT, new terminal, GRT buses)

[BMO]

Maybe traffic has gotten much worse since a couple of years ago? I used to drive on King through uptown Waterloo and never felt there was much traffic.

In uptown, you can always park for free either in the giant parking lot near the small mall near King, or on a parking lot in Regina. Most restaurants have parking lots as well.

Of course, KW also has a massive student population where most don't own a car.

I think people just avoid King St like he plague now. Just graduated from planning at UW this past December and whenever I'd drive somewhere in Waterloo, or anybody else drove, we would always avoid King St in Kitchener and take Weber, Westmount, etc then take Victoria or any number of the other streets crossing King to get to our final destination. In the 5 years since I've been at UW the traffic has gotten noticeably worse, especially around University Ave near UW, King St corridor and Hwy 8/85.

This LRT will be great, it definitely isn't warranted by ridership, but it's something the region needs as a back bone to their transit system and to attract tech startups and stop the brain drain from the region. Most startup employees are students or recent grads who can't afford a car, or don't really want to have to maintain or own a car. I think this project will go a long way to help the city. I have my problems with the alignment, but overall it's a decent plan.

 

[ehlow]

I was definitely impressed by the amount of higher density residential development when I visited last summer, and also by the changes to downtown Kitchener.

So according to the schedule on the PDF posted, it seems like it should be un-cancellable by this summer right?

If the LRT is built and GO service to Toronto is increased, the two together could make visiting Waterloo without a car much more practical, as well as visiting Toronto from Waterloo. Instead of busing students back and forth, one would hope they could take the LRT to the Kitchener GO station, and take the train into Toronto.

 

[BMO]

Good to see, but the transit hub doesn't have funding yet IIRC.

The zoning is in place for the hub is it not? I suppose it would come down to putting the design and construction of the transit hub up for a bid and then divying up the remaining land for private developers to build on right?

 

[BMO]

I was definitely impressed by the amount of higher density residential development when I visited last summer, and also by the changes to downtown Kitchener.

So according to the schedule on the PDF posted, it seems like it should be un-cancellable by this summer right?

If the LRT is built and GO service to Toronto is increased, the two together could make visiting Waterloo without a car much more practical, as well as visiting Toronto from Waterloo. Instead of busing students back and forth, one would hope they could take the LRT to the Kitchener GO station, and take the train into Toronto.

I wonder if more people will choose Toronto as a bedroom community and work in Waterloo or vice-versa when all is said and done. I can see Toronto being really appealing to the young tech crowd, considering Waterloo is quite quiet in comparison, maybe that's just my narrow University memories talking though.

 

[ehlow]

I wonder if more people will choose Toronto as a bedroom community and work in Waterloo or vice-versa when all is said and done. I can see Toronto being really appealing to the young tech crowd, considering Waterloo is quite quiet in comparison, maybe that's just my narrow University memories talking though.

I have lived in both and I personally prefer living in Toronto. I also don't really want to take a job in Waterloo because even if all day two way GO service happens, it will still take probably 1.5 hours each way, not including the additional travel time to Union station and around Waterloo, even though there are jobs and companies in Waterloo that seem interesting. I definitely don't want to drive there.

Waterloo has much more affordable housing, no traffic issues (compared to Toronto), so I can understand why some people would prefer it.

But for me in my stage of life, I personally love being in a bigger city with a tons of interesting & walkable neighbourhoods, good public transit (compared to Waterloo), an endless supply of restaurants, tons of festivals in the summer (Nuit blanche, carribana, beaches jazz fest, etc etc), concerts, sports events like being able to see a Leafs game by taking a 15 min subway ride. While hydro cut in Waterloo is a great trail, the ravines in Toronto and things like the Leslie Spit & the waterfront trail are amazing, and you don't need to drive to access them.

 

[innsertnamehere]

They bought the land for it, and I think they are hoping GO will build a "basic" new station for the LRT opening, but the hub itself is unfunded. I wonder if they will apply for some Federal grant money for it, it would be a great project to fund for the Feds.

 

[dunkalunk]

They bought the land for it, and I think they are hoping GO will build a "basic" new station for the LRT opening, but the hub itself is unfunded. I wonder if they will apply for some Federal grant money for it, it would be a great project to fund for the Feds.

From what I understand from regional staff, GO's operations will remain at the current Weber Street station on day one of ION. If you've heard something different, that would be excellent news.

I also don't imagine hearing any more about funding until the fall; after municipal and provincial elections . I imagine they'd be investigating assistance from Infrastructure Ontario at this time.

 

[innsertnamehere]

If they pushed it the link could easily be around an hour between the two, especially during rush Hour. Run a couple of express trains only stopping before Downtown Brampton or something, that would cut 15 minutes off the time right there, and upgrade the tracks between Kitchener and Toronto to 150km/h and you can probably get it to around an hour.

 

[ehlow]

If they pushed it the link could easily be around an hour between the two, especially during rush Hour. Run a couple of express trains only stopping before Downtown Brampton or something, that would cut 15 minutes off the time right there, and upgrade the tracks between Kitchener and Toronto to 150km/h and you can probably get it to around an hour.

If that happens, great. But currently they don't even have all day 2 way service at normal speeds, let alone at 150km/h, so to me it seems at least years away from happening.

They don't even have 2-way all day service to parts of the GTA other than the lakeshore line. Hopefully it will happen. (any ETA?)

 

[BMO]

From what I understand from regional staff, GO's operations will remain at the current Weber Street station on day one of ION. If you've heard something different, that would be excellent news.

I also don't imagine hearing any more about funding until the fall; after municipal and provincial elections . I imagine they'd be investigating assistance from Infrastructure Ontario at this time.

This would be a shame. It's literally a block away. Hopefully some sort of deal comes through. Given that it'll be 3 years before LRTs are running, getting funding and building the hub could take considerably less time.

 

[TOareaFan]

If they pushed it the link could easily be around an hour between the two, especially during rush Hour. Run a couple of express trains only stopping before Downtown Brampton or something, that would cut 15 minutes off the time right there, and upgrade the tracks between Kitchener and Toronto to 150km/h and you can probably get it to around an hour.

There is currently 1 express train on that line. It does all stops from Georgetown East to Bramalea then runs express to Union. It has been discussed in the GO service thread a few times that it is a bit strange that this is not the train that it was chosen to originate in KW.

The travel time of that train from Bramalea to Union is currently 10 minutes shorter than the trip before it (which originates in KW and makes all stops).....so to get those additional 5 minutes would mean skipping more stops between KW and Bramalea. Without skipping more stops (ie. just saving the 10 minutes the current express train saves)......that would bring the trip from KW to Union from 2:04 to 1:54....if it was deemed worth saving 5 more minutes by skipping the busier stations of Georgetown/Mt. Pleasant/Brampton that would bring you to 1:49....still a long way from an hour!

Once the GTSouth corridor work is done there will (I presume) be a bit of speed pick up but that will likely get offset pretty quick by adding in a new stop or two (Mt. Dennis and, hopefully, a Liberty Village stop) so when I read people suggesting 1 hour travel times from KW to Union it just makes my head spin....it is not very likely at all.

 

[innsertnamehere]

you are probably looking at 20 minutes from the completion of Georgetown south. I can't find any schedules from before the construction started, but my understanding is that it was shorter than it is currently. Combine that with speeds expected to increase from the completion of the project, and I can easily see 20 minutes eliminated from construction, especially considering a theoretical Kitchener train would be skipping any new stations.

Fixing the stretch through Guelph would be a huge help in travel times alone, you could probably shave 5 minutes from a 1km stretch of track. 1 hour may not be achievable, but 1:15 very well may be.

 

[ehlow]

What's the current trip time from Union to Kitchener?

 

[dunkalunk]

The main political hurdle here is that the hub is not and never was budgeted as part of the rapid transit project and is instead its own entity. This allows its total and timeline to be kept separate from the $818M budget and allows the project team to get shovels in the ground as soon as possible. It also makes the option of selling air rights above the station much more flexible and keeps the consortium out of the real estate management business. I would expect negotiations on any cost-sharing agreements with governments, Metrolinx, coach carriers, what-have-you to take at least a year.

The downside is that there will be a hole in the ground adjacent to the Victoria ION stop for 2 years after the project is completed. The upside is that the region can take longer to screen potential bids and architectural quality.

Once it gets the go-ahead I expect there to be no shortage of developers interested in plopping 15-20 stories on top of the station building.

 

[TOareaFan]

What's the current trip time from Union to Kitchener?

2:05