Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

[BMO]

If the streetcar tunnel gets turned into a pedestrian tunnel, or pulley train, I will leave Toronto. It will be clear to me that the people in charge of this city only care about the parts of this city that have been amalgamated in 1998, as transferring at Kennedy is apparently unacceptable for the residents of Scarborough, and deserves a 3.5 billion dollar subway extension, but its not a requirement downtown at Union.

To be fair, I bet you, most people in Scarborough would probably support NOT having a transfer here just like you. So I don't understand why you're trying to inject some sort of Us vs Them subtext to this study with regards to this.

 

[goreckm]

If the streetcar tunnel gets turned into a pedestrian tunnel, or pulley train, I will leave Toronto. It will be clear to me that the people in charge of this city only care about the parts of this city that have been amalgamated in 1998, as transferring at Kennedy is apparently unacceptable for the residents of Scarborough, and deserves a 3.5 billion dollar subway extension, but its not a requirement downtown at Union.

What's even more egregious, imo, is that we are literally removing medium capacity transit infrastructure, and forcing people to walk (I see this pedestrian sidewalk broken within a few years, and have a fate like Spadina).

Come visit the Toronto Waterfront! Just walk for 1/2 km in a dark tunnel underground to get to it!

 

[goreckm]

To be fair, I bet you, most people in Scarborough would probably support NOT having a transfer here just like you. So I don't understand why you're trying to inject some sort of Us vs Them subtext to this study with regards to this.

Sure, and everyone else in Toronto would love for Scarborough residents to have a subway tunnel all the way to the zoo. But, in a world of finite money, we have to make decisions on where to spend that money in the best way to build the city as a whole. This is the main problem that people reference when they say the one-stop subway is ridiculous, is the opportunity cost.

 

[Red October]

The "funicular" plan just seems like them suggesting a slapped on solution to a problem they're creating themselves... And the walkway plan is so stupid I'm not even dignifying it with a complete response.

Expand the loop. Actually create a connected network here.

 

[crs1026]

Never claimed it was a TTC idea. In fact, Steve's article made it quite clear that the TTC is not pleased in the least with City Planning's proposal.

I assumed the TTC would be operating it (albeit reluctantly), but you're right, there's no guarantee it would be the operating it. It could easily be contracted out to another operator or municipal division. But regardless of who's operating it, I have little faith that it will be well maintained.

Given the location, it could be assigned to the Island Ferry Department.

Come to think of it....they could partly flood the tunnel, and have a chain of little boats, moving in an endless loop. Just like Disney.

/s

- Paul

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Given the location, it could be assigned to the Island Ferry Department.
Come to think of it....they could partly flood the tunnel, and have a chain of little boats, moving in an endless loop. Just like Disney.
/s
- Paul

I think someone would call those Swan boats. We should flood a few streets so that we can run those all the way to the Don, as DRL.

AoD

 

[salsa]

Given the location, it could be assigned to the Island Ferry Department.

Come to think of it....they could partly flood the tunnel, and have a chain of little boats, moving in an endless loop. Just like Disney.

/s

- Paul

Sound like a more credible plan than a lot of the "options" we were presented with.

 

[rbt]

I'm voting Other.

Break YUS into 2 lines. Extend University line down York to a new terminus at Queens Quay. Shift St. Patrick station a little south to better tie into Union Station. It wouldn't be the nicest transfer to the Yonge line but there are numerous minimal walking transfers available (DRL on Queen, Bloor, and Eglinton).

At the new Queens Quay & York subway station, connect the through LRT line platform directly to the subway platform (stacked).

On pricing the above plan, I think bean counters will find the enhanced LRT loop is a bargain.

 

[DSC]

I think someone would call those Swan boats. We should flood a few streets so that we can run those all the way to the Don, as DRL.

AoD

Something like this, perhaps. It could become a tourist draw.

 

[amnesiajune]

So, is anyone going to apply Kennedy inconvenience logic to scheme B and C?

A moving walkway is stupid, a one-way moving walkway is really stupid, and a ski train is really, really, really stupid. If we're going that far, we might as well suggest putting a giant bike share dock at each end and build an underground bike lane.

Happy?

Also, Steve Munro is really, really, really stupid if he thinks any proposal other than the new platforms at Union station are being seriously considered. And as he shows in his links, the other options really haven't been seriously considered, considering the lack of serious planning in the presentation. This is probably one of those cases where city staff want to present an alternative option so they can say to their critics "we tried, there's nothing we can do, sorry..."

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

A moving walkway is stupid, a one-way moving walkway is really stupid, and a ski train is really, really, really stupid. If we're going that far, we might as well suggest putting a giant bike share dock at each end and build an underground bike lane.

Happy?

Not quite, I haven't heard anything about lived experiences yet

I'm voting Other.

Break YUS into 2 lines. Extend University line down York to a new terminus at Queens Quay. Shift St. Patrick station a little south to better tie into Union Station. It wouldn't be the nicest transfer to the Yonge line but there are numerous minimal walking transfers available (DRL on Queen, Bloor, and Eglinton).

At the new Queens Quay & York subway station, connect the through LRT line platform directly to the subway platform (stacked).

On pricing the above plan, I think bean counters will find the enhanced LRT loop is a bargain.

Technically yes, but a reset fixated upon cost of the 2008 EA proposal will like your scheme even less.

Something like this, perhaps. It could become a tourist draw.
View attachment 121560

In the interest of speed, I propose this variant:

At 60kph, it's faster than subways.

AoD

 

[DSC]

Also, Steve Munro is really, really, really stupid if he thinks any proposal other than the new platforms at Union station are being seriously considered. And as he shows in his links, the other options really haven't been seriously considered, considering the lack of serious planning in the presentation. This is probably one of those cases where city staff want to present an alternative option so they can say to their critics "we tried, there's nothing we can do, sorry..."

Frankly, Steve Munro's track record of understanding and explaining how transit planning works (and how it should work) in this City is somewhat (!!) greater than yours. Nobody in their right mind thinks that options other than an expansion of the loop/tunnel are sensible but, as we see all too often here, just because an idea is stupid does not mean it wont' be implemented - particularly if it's actually cheaper (or can be made to seem so)!

 

[salsa]

A moving walkway is stupid, a one-way moving walkway is really stupid, and a ski train is really, really, really stupid. If we're going that far, we might as well suggest putting a giant bike share dock at each end and build an underground bike lane.

What's not to like? We'd get a protected bike lane, bike share expansion, and no cars getting in the way! Cycle Toronto would be happy.

 

[amnesiajune]

Frankly, Steve Munro's track record of understanding and explaining how transit planning works (and how it should work) in this City is somewhat (!!) greater than yours. Nobody in their right mind thinks that options other than an expansion of the loop/tunnel are sensible but, as we see all too often here, just because an idea is stupid does not mean it wont' be implemented - particularly if it's actually cheaper (or can be made to seem so)!

He's very good at understanding and explaining transit issues. He's also very good at being a professional whiner and distorting political issues when he wants to. I think he knows that the city, TTC and Waterfront TO have no intention of making any change to the streetcar tunnel except adding more platforms, but he wants to pretend that they have some other intentions so he can be critical.

 

[Rainforest]

He's very good at understanding and explaining transit issues. He's also very good at being a professional whiner and distorting political issues when he wants to. I think he knows that the city, TTC and Waterfront TO have no intention of making any change to the streetcar tunnel except adding more platforms, but he wants to pretend that they have some other intentions so he can be critical.

? Kind of a stretch of imagination.

What you are suggesting isn't impossible in the sense that it doesn't contradict the fundamental laws of physics, but other than that, there is no evidence to support such assumptions.