Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

[ADRM]

The vast majority of city staff take transit to work.

I'm pretty sure the reference was to the councillors who are, unfortunately, the actual decision makers here, and most of them certainly do not take public transit, walk, or bike to work.

 

[amnesiajune]

I'm pretty sure the reference was to the councillors who are, unfortunately, the actual decision makers here, and most of them certainly do not take public transit, walk, or bike to work.

I'm pretty sure that most city councillors bike or take public transit to work, including the mayor and supposed enemy-of-good-transit John Tory.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I'm pretty sure that most city councillors bike or take public transit to work, including the mayor and supposed enemy-of-good-transit John Tory.

While it is fairly well known that JT rides on the TTC, where did you get the "most councilors" from? Nevermind councillors - there were reports that not even most of the TTC board members use public transit regularly.

http://toronto.citynews.ca/2014/12/09/majority-of-ttc-board-members-dont-ride-public-transit-2/

AoD

 

[amnesiajune]

While it is fairly well known that JT rides on the TTC, where did you get the "most councilors" from?

Just interviews I've read over the years. As far as I know, all the core, east-end and west-end councillors bike or take TTC to work, and so do most from midtown and along Yonge. That by itself would put the number somewhere in the mid-20s.

Is there some reason why "I'm pretty sure that most city councillors bike or take public transit to work" is worth questioning, but "most of them certainly do not take public transit, walk, or bike to work" isn't?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Just interviews I've read over the years. As far as I know, all the core, east-end and west-end councillors bike or take TTC to work, and so do most from midtown and along Yonge. That by itself would put the number somewhere in the mid-20s.

Is there some reason why "I'm pretty sure that most city councillors bike or take public transit to work" is worth questioning, but "most of them certainly do not take public transit, walk, or bike to work" isn't?

See the post above re: the board, and note where they're from.

AoD

 

[ADRM]

As far as I know, all the core, east-end and west-end councillors bike or take TTC to work, and so do most from midtown and along Yonge.

And I know from personal relationships that that is not the case.

 

[amnesiajune]

See the post above re: the board, and note where they're from.

Two councillors from midtown say they use transit regularly. One from Scarborough and one from North York they don't. A fifth councillor from the northwestern corner of the city says he uses it sometimes. The other 40 weren't even asked.

In other words, you should've questioned "most of them certainly do not take public transit, walk, or bike to work" but presumably you didn't want to because that statement supports your views.

And I know from personal relationships that that is not the case.

Anecdotal evidence on the internet is the worst kind of evidence.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Two councillors from midtown say they use transit regularly. One from Scarborough and one from North York they don't. A fifth councillor from the northwestern corner of the city says he uses it sometimes. The other 40 weren't even asked. In other words, you should've questioned "most of them certainly do not take public transit, walk, or bike to work" but presumably you didn't want to.

Anecdotal evidence on the internet is the worst kind of evidence.

Isn't there a saying that if you put forward a claim, you provide the evidence - and uncited "interviews I've read over the years" is the best kind?

AoD

 

[ADRM]

Anecdotal evidence on the internet is the worst kind of evidence.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[amnesiajune]

I couldn't agree more.

Did I use the word "certainly"?

Isn't there a saying that if you put forward a claim, you provide the evidence - and uncited "interviews I've read over the years" is the best kind?

It's not, which is why I didn't state it as a proven fact. I'm still waiting for some evidence that "most city councillors certainly do not take public transit, walk, or bike to work". Why are you reluctant to question that statement?

 

[ADRM]

Did I use the word "certainly"?

Ah good point; then I agree unreservedly with every point you've made.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Did I use the word "certainly"?
It's not, which is why I didn't state it as a proven fact. I'm still waiting for some evidence that "most city councillors certainly do not take public transit, walk, or bike to work". Why are you reluctant to question that statement?

That's certainly playing with semantics - I am fairly certain that pretty sure is read in the same as certainly in a casual, non-legal forumspeak context.

AoD

 

[amnesiajune]

That's certainly playing with semantics - I am fairly certain that pretty sure is read in the same as certainly in a casual, non-legal forumspeak context.

If, as you say, they're read in the same way, why is only one of those worth questioning?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

If, as you say, they're read in the same way, why is only one of those worth questioning?

Because unlike the claim of "read interviews", I can at least produce a smidgen of evidence in print that consistent transit use by councillors isn't all that common a mode of behavour? Also, go through this thought exercise - is it reasonable to expect a group of councillors working odd hours with frequent off-site travel to have a majority mode split biased towards transit? It is highly unlikely.

AoD

 

[amnesiajune]

Also, go through this thought exercise - is it reasonable to expect a group of councillors working odd hours with frequent off-site travel to have a majority mode split biased towards transit?

I'd expect that it'll depend a lot on their schedules. Every city councillor gets a free metropass, so they can come and go as they please. The typical city councillor also doesn't have a wild schedule. They have their meetings at Nathan Phillips Square and commitments in their community, and not a whole lot else unless they chair certain committees.