AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
From the Sept WT DRP:
Lower Bay:
Union to QQ:
AoD
Lower Bay:
Union to QQ:
AoD
|
|
|
Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
Northern Light
Superstar
Thanks for that Alvin!
From the links above:
There are several more slides of concepts under consideration, but I'm out of room for this post!
So follow Alvin's links to look at the rest!
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I welcome it south of Lake Shore but can't help but wonder what cutting Bay's traffic lanes will do from Lake Shore to Front St will achieve.. just to put in a median? The space under the underpass isn't really needed for pedestrian traffic either right now as most people have excellent room to access where they are going through the two GO concourses on either side.
At the very least it should be widening the sidewalk along the ACC (err.. Scotiabank Arena) to help deal with game time crowds.. It's not a fun experience lining up for security clearance getting into the gates along there right now. I'd be supportive of dropping the double right turn lane there to fix that issue, but beyond that, I just don't see the need to completely screw traffic for marginal, not very useful pedestrian space gains. If you want to reduce crossing distances at Front/Bay, cut the left turn lanes there, especially the NB one, and restrict left turn movements in peak hours at the intersection.
South of Lake Shore Bay St isn't nearly as busy, especially once the Bay St on-ramp is demolished, so a single vehicle lane works better there. I would probably want to keep dedicated left turn lanes though.
At the very least it should be widening the sidewalk along the ACC (err.. Scotiabank Arena) to help deal with game time crowds.. It's not a fun experience lining up for security clearance getting into the gates along there right now. I'd be supportive of dropping the double right turn lane there to fix that issue, but beyond that, I just don't see the need to completely screw traffic for marginal, not very useful pedestrian space gains. If you want to reduce crossing distances at Front/Bay, cut the left turn lanes there, especially the NB one, and restrict left turn movements in peak hours at the intersection.
South of Lake Shore Bay St isn't nearly as busy, especially once the Bay St on-ramp is demolished, so a single vehicle lane works better there. I would probably want to keep dedicated left turn lanes though.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I wish we’d use this opportunity to fix Bay Street between Front St and Queen St too. In the pre-COVID times the sidewalks were overloaded with pedestrian traffic, due to people walking between Union Station and King/Queen. There will be even greater pressure on sidewalk capacity with GO Expansion, the Ontario Line and population/office growth funnelling thousand of more pedestrians onto Bay Street at peak hours in the upcoming years.
The street is also rather windy and loud and not particularly comfortable to exist on. This is likely due to all the hard surfaces (skyscrapers, road surface) reflecting the sounds and creating a wind tunnel. The installation of trees would address both issues.
We're fortunate to have a marvellous terminating vista with Old City Hall at the top of the street. With some proper streetscaping, this would be a wonderful view.
Last edited:
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Tentatively, I'd suggest removing the transit priority lanes to widen the sidewalks here on both sides. The additional space could also be used for the installation of trees.
This would negatively impact the operation of the 6 Bay bus, however with the Yonge Line, University Line and Ontario Line being providing alternative routes, I'm not convinced that this would be overly detrimental to transit users. Heck, I'd even consider terminating the Bay bus at Queen if that makes route operations more reliable. I can't imagine this route is heavily used between Queen and Front.
Dinamo5
New Member
Have they ever considered one way traffic like in Hamilton. That way they can still have 2 lanes of traffic if not possibly 3. Not sure if I am a fan of the La Rambla design, because the one side of the street will get much less foot traffic then the other, and that will affect retail on that side would it not?
Either way those designs are better then the present, and yes we definatley need a main entry boulevard to the waterfront, similar to what places like Montreal have when walking to the waterfront.
Either way those designs are better then the present, and yes we definatley need a main entry boulevard to the waterfront, similar to what places like Montreal have when walking to the waterfront.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
The centre median is a bad idea. We know from our experience with University Avenue that the centre median will be a dead zone for pedestrian activity. Nobody will want to hang out between two car lanes (as depicted in the image).
The "West Side Bioscape" concept is preferable, as it provides more space to pedestrians, which will help relieve pedestrian overcrowding in the area around Union Station.
The "West Side Bioscape" concept is preferable, as it provides more space to pedestrians, which will help relieve pedestrian overcrowding in the area around Union Station.
Towered
Superstar
How awesome would it be to extend the Bay streetcar all the way up to Bloor (or beyond)?
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
The dedicated pedestrian/cycling tunnel is a fantastic way to protect pedestrian from the noise and pollution of cars here. But doesn't the Bay West Teamway already accomplish this goal? Why not just remove the Teamway's doors and funnel all pedestrian traffic through there?
EddyMCD
Active Member
Out of all the streets to try something like "La Rambla", the southern portion of Bay St. seems like an odd choice. It's full of soul-less office towers with minimal retail. I don't see how they can turn it into much more even with amazing landscaping and design.
drum118
Superstar
Going back as far as 2008, it been suggested that Bay St be close south of Queen to traffic to become a Transit/Pedestrians Mall with the streetcar going north to Bloor St.
This means the current loop station would have to be move lower to get under the subway since both are currently the same level.
Where and how do you loop the line at Bloor other than using duel end cars with stub tacks??
Regardless, Bay St needs to be 2 lanes with the curb lane becoming a sidewalk as you have no room to walk north at PM peak time with a wall of Pedestrians heading to Union Station.
Landscaping all north-south streets go back to 2005 or before then in the core.
Far cheaper to put the streetcars on the surface of Bay from QQ to Bloor, but have to deal with Pedestrians at QQ, traffic at Lake Shore and from Front St to Queen.
If Bay is to become 2 lanes, all turns need to be ban as it will back up everything and making TTC bus service a nightmare. Current service is a nightmare as no enforcement of HOV takes place. 99% of all traffic in the HOV lane are illegal drivers.
Not impress with this landscaping plan.
Wonder when the next public meeting will be if the report is to go to council in Nov for approval and funding considering it was to happen a month ago?? We are going to do it this way regardless what the public thinks.
This means the current loop station would have to be move lower to get under the subway since both are currently the same level.
Where and how do you loop the line at Bloor other than using duel end cars with stub tacks??
Regardless, Bay St needs to be 2 lanes with the curb lane becoming a sidewalk as you have no room to walk north at PM peak time with a wall of Pedestrians heading to Union Station.
Landscaping all north-south streets go back to 2005 or before then in the core.
Far cheaper to put the streetcars on the surface of Bay from QQ to Bloor, but have to deal with Pedestrians at QQ, traffic at Lake Shore and from Front St to Queen.
If Bay is to become 2 lanes, all turns need to be ban as it will back up everything and making TTC bus service a nightmare. Current service is a nightmare as no enforcement of HOV takes place. 99% of all traffic in the HOV lane are illegal drivers.
Not impress with this landscaping plan.
Wonder when the next public meeting will be if the report is to go to council in Nov for approval and funding considering it was to happen a month ago?? We are going to do it this way regardless what the public thinks.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Not possible with the current crop of politicians and bureaucrats. Maybe by the 22nd or 23rd century.
drum118
Superstar
Not only that, you need to get rid of TTC Service Planning Managers and staff as well the CEO. The manager of service and staff have opposed any idea of taking the streetcar to Bloor as well a number of other location.
Back in 2006 after the LRT EA was approved for the Lake Shore line to Kingston Rd by TTC Commission and council, It was removed unknown to those involved in preparing the Master Transit Plan for the Waterfront by TTC when the province requested the EA broken down into 3 packages.
TTC itself keeps shooting themselves in the foot for better service and system wide.
Towered
Superstar
Remember the Kingston Rd. BRT EA?? I wonder what ever happened to it...
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
What benefits do you see from a Bay streetcar line? Is that route particularly overcrowded?