News   Nov 28, 2024
 36     0 
News   Nov 28, 2024
 269     0 
News   Nov 27, 2024
 1K     4 

Visited Montreal for the first time. Some questions about their Metro system

The city is currently spending $4 billion on a single highway interchange, $4.5 billion on a bridge

It's somewhat misleading to put it that way. The scope of these projects goes way beyond a single interchange and a bridge.

The Turcot project is a complete rebuild+widening of highway 20/720 + multiple interchanges over 6 kilometers + a complete rebuild + widening of highway 15 over 3 kilometers

f90u7lt.jpg


The Champlain project includes a full rebuild + widening of highway 15 over 8 km, and the price tag includes maintenance and upkeep for the next 30 years.
nbsl-map-eng.JPG
 
A horrendously complex project. Expensive as hell, no matter how it is sliced, but yes, way more than just an interchange and a bridge.

As it appears inevitable to proceed, I hope they do it properly with properly engineered infrastructure.

The Champlain bridge is very important to Montreal, and I hope they manage to include flexibility / provisions for train tracks in the new bridge. It is a shame that the original Champlain bridge was flawed.
 
A horrendously complex project. I hope they do it properly with properly engineered infrastructure.

I live right next to the project and it's a truly fascinating project to see evolve. Amazing how they're able to build so much a complex project in only 3-4 years.

The Champlain bridge is very important to Montreal, and I hope they manage to include flexibility / provisions for train tracks in the new bridge. It is a shame that the original Champlain bridge was flawed.

In a way, it's a good thing that the old Champlain bridge had to be replaced after such a short life, because the transit status quo was unacceptable.

The Champlain bridge bus lane now carries more commuters every morning than the yellow line metro, yet the whole system relies on a man sitting on the side of a truck who has to manually place hundreds of traffic cones all over the bridge to setup the counterflow bus lane and manually remove them hours later. Twice a day, 5 days a week.

slide_466098_6319226_free.jpg


slide_466098_6319228_free.jpg


Whenever there's too much wind for the cones, the counterflow bus lane is cancelled for the day, stranding hundreds of buses and tens of thousands of transit users in rush hour traffic!

Having a driverless metro line on the new bridge will be much of an improvement over cone-man :D


2020 can't come soon enough.
 
The Champlain bridge bus lane now carries more commuters every morning than the yellow line metro, yet the whole system relies on a man sitting on the side of a truck who has to manually place hundreds of traffic cones all over the bridge to setup the counterflow bus lane and manually remove them hours later. Twice a day, 5 days a week.

Whenever there's too much wind for the cones, the counterflow bus lane is cancelled for the day, stranding hundreds of buses and tens of thousands of transit users in rush hour traffic!

Having a driverless metro line on the new bridge will be much of an improvement over cone-man :D


2020 can't come soon enough.

Oh man that's crazy. Feel like in the interim they could've maybe come up with some other solution. Like a dynamic lighting system installed in the roadway? I dunno. But daily cone placement is wild.
 
Oh man that's crazy. Feel like in the interim they could've maybe come up with some other solution. Like a dynamic lighting system installed in the roadway? I dunno. But daily cone placement is wild.

When the contraflow bus lane was introduced in 1978 (as an interim measure until a rail link is built !), there were no cones. Better, clearer signage was instated after the first fatal accident in 1981.

Daily cone placement was only instated as a result of the third deadly collision, which claimed 3 lives in 1987.
 
Isn't it the Federal Government and not the city which owns and operates the Champlain Bridge, and therefore pays the $4.5Bn?
 
Isn't it the Federal Government and not the city which owns and operates the Champlain Bridge, and therefore pays the $4.5Bn?

Yes, through Infrastructure Canada.

http://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/nbsl-npsl/agreement-entente-eng.html

http://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/nbsl-npsl/vfm-odr/index-eng.html#app2

The Federal Government is also footing the bill for the demolition cost of the old bridge, which will cost an additional ~400M$

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/champlain-bridge-400-million-demolition-2017-1.4056328
 
Also, just learned something new! The centre span (of three spans) is a BRT which they want to turn into the REM.

Since the beginning, the centre span was designed to be flexible enough to accommodate either bus or rail transit, depending on what the Quebec government would later decide.

Since Quebec has decided to build the REM, the center span is no longer planned to be built for BRT.

Instead, between the new bridge opening date (Dec 1 2018) and the REM opening date (Late 2020), the shoulders will be used as a 4th lane for buses.

qVYCLGE.png
 
It has all its funding lined up ($1.283 billion Provincial, $1.283 billion Federal, $100 million municipal, $2.67 billion CdP), which is impressive enough. The DRL has been on the books forever and all they were able to fund is studies.
You don't think the central portion of the REM hasn't been in on book forever? Think about it - one if it's earlier names was "Line 3". Given Line 4 opened in 1967, that should give you some idea how old plans for rapid transit along the centre part of the REM is!

It may well happen - there does seem to be some momentum. But I'll believe it when there are shovels in the ground. Certainly for the Trudeau and St-Anne legs.

There is a pre-built station in the airport,
Is there? When did they add that? You'd have thought they'd have learned their lesson after their roughed-in station at Mirabel - I wonder what happened to that when they demolished the terminal.

This way, we would be doing the tunneling in places that make sense (downtown, under Rene-Levesque) instead of under a runway.
Tunnelling under a runway isn't particularly difficult. And certainly simpler than all the services you'd have to deal with under Dorchester - though you'd probably end up so deep, you'd be underneath much of it. Look at airports around the world, and they are riddled with tunnels.

Tunelling may not even be necessary, since there is extra room in the decked-over Ville-Marie expressway.
Where? Didn't seem to be any extra room down there before they decked it over - and not that much is decked. There's the piece between St-Andre and Hotel-de-Ville, and the small piece covered by the Palais des congres. Most of what you need is the deep tunnel between there and Guy, that's too steep for rail.

... the planned Cavendish extension north at Cote-St-Luc.
Oh, is that back on again? 50 years in the making. I wonder how Cote-St.-Luc and TMR will scupper it this time.


I also think it's quite an impressive feat - nothing short of a minor miracle - that they managed to pull together nearly $6 billion in city/provincial/federal/private funding, less than 1 year after its initial announcement in April 2016.
Compare to the $5.3 billion Line 5 along Eglinton that went from a pipe dream in 2007, to fully-funded in 2009. Sometimes things come together.

But it's not exactly a start in 2016. The main new link is the LRT connection over the St. Lawrence. Construction began over 2½ years ago, and light rail has been a part of that plan for a decade. Recall that AMT released was studying LRT in the Autoroute 10 corridor for years as one of it's Grand Projets. The seemed to start getting serious around 2007 or so, when it became clear that the Champlain Bridge replacement was going to give an opportunity to build something, but I think the first AMT studies date back to 1998, for the A10.

Then much of the track from the end of that project, has already been in commuter rail service for 100 years, and was part of the long-planned Metro Line 3. The big spend on this section is the deep platforms at Metro Vincent-d'Indy - or whatever they renamed it to. This has been planned since the early 1960s, and very seriously since Line 5 design began in around 1971.

Even the spur to Trudeau comes of the the Train de l'Ouest studies, mostly on a spur off the Deux-Montagnes line all the way to Fairview.
 
Is there? When did they add that? You'd have thought they'd have learned their lesson after their roughed-in station at Mirabel - I wonder what happened to that when they demolished the terminal.

To call it a "pre-built station" is a bit of an exaggeration.

They built a cavern where a station could be located when they built the new Marriott a couple of years ago. It was oriented for the train de l'ouest however, so I don't know if it's capable of being used for the REM.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Visited Montreal once again this weekend and I'm still impressed with their transit system as a whole. I find it so odd to see so many metro stations in low-density areas, yet they still seem to have a consistent flow of people throughout the day. I also ended up transferring at Lionel-Groulx and my mind was blown at how well it works having alternate lines on the same platform instead of requiring every single transfer to go up or down stairs. I found this alleviated a lot of pedestrian congestion at stairways. I wonder why this has never been considered in Toronto? I feel like St. George could have had something like this in place. I always find it funny when we feel like we need to look south of the border for best-practices instead of potentially looking to Montreal and seeing some things that work there. Another example is their Opus cards that are way easier to fill and obtain throughout the system. Not to mention to intuitive temporary weekend and daily-use passes. Their stations are also way cleaner, not sure how they maintain them since they have hardly any trash bins on the platforms and I rarely saw any maintenance of cleaning staff.
 
While Montreal doesn't have as much high-rise condos than Toronto, it has a lot more multi-family and low-rise apartments than Toronto. So areas are residential but not necessarily low density.
 
Both the champlain bridge and the Turcot interchange had to be replaced because they had reached the end of their usefull life. The economic studies commissioned by the various levels of govt concluded that it was not economically viable (and maybe not possible) to do the structural maintenance necessary to keep the champlain bridge up. Its time had run out. The bridge is also very critical piece of infrastructure for the economy because, not only is it the busiest bridge, its also the the best route to access the US border.

The federal govt has jusidiction over the bridge so they had approved and budgeted a solution that required toll and no LRT tracks under the Harper govt. The province and city wanted no tolls and an LRT. Trudeau campaigned on this promise to not toll the bridge and the allow the LRT.

Its a similar story with the Turcot interchange. It was falling appart. This infrastructure (bridge and interchange) was built inthe fifties.
 

Back
Top