Video shows man calm before being tasered in Vancouver

[Hydrogen]

The tasers-are-non-lethal thing is something that gets repeated over and over again...but are they really? There are so many examples of people dying after being tasered I think that's a rather dubious claim at this point. And what's dangerous about them is precisely their supposed non-lethality--it makes cops quite likely to use them, and to use them in a fashion that includes shouts of "hit him again!"

I don't know if a manslaughter charge is appropriate here, but it *might* be.

The best that one can go by are the tests carried out with tasers, which show that in the case of general use, the device is non-lethal - even with multiple shocks (although risk increases with every shock). One should always take such a description with a grain of salt. With a pre-existing health condition, such shocks can be deadly to a person. The resulting deaths from taser use is an outcome of its greater use; and in many instances tasers have replaced firearms or batons.

In actual fact, all non-lethal means to subdue a person always carry a risk. Pepper spray has caused choking and severe allergic and asthmatic reactions. Non-lethal physical devices such as PR-24 batons, and correct training in their use, always expose both the police officer and the suspect to the threat of physical injury.

What I find interesting about the video is this: the airport people are calling the police multiple times and describing the person as "freaking out." I have to wonder if that, and the physical evidence of damage left by the guy, made a difference in how rapidly things were handled after that.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

That video footage is heartbreaking.

This poor fellow just flew on a plane for the first time in his life, he arrives in a foreign land, he does not speak the official languages and then he waits 10 hours for his mother to arrive. He is unaware that his mother leaves the airport after being told that her son is not there. My observation of this poor fellow is he's not so much "freaking out" but that he is scared, probably hungry, he looks tired and drawn and is clearly having severe anxiety issues, perhaps panic attacks.

If there is a pattern of tasers killing people because of underlying health conditions I would think that the use of these devices should be suspended in Canada until a formal review can be held in the matter. Amnesty International reports 290 deaths from tasers in the USA and Canada by law enforcement officials since 2001.

 

[lordmandeep]

the police rep for the RCMP sort of said indirectly don't judge us based on the video.

Clearly a desperate pathetic attempt to hid this away..

I think Manslaughter is right here...

 

[afransen]

These devices are usually not referred to as being 'non-lethal', but rather 'less-lethal'. Tasering is much safer than shooting someone, but since it has the perception of being 'safe', it is used much more liberally. They really need to tell law enforcement that tasering involves a non-negligible chance of death and so should be used with care.

 

[lordmandeep]

yeah its like if i hit someone with a bat, it won't kill you, but i can...

 

[nicetommy]

Hopefully justice will be served. It was a terrible thing that happened to him. This latest news article from CP24 says he was actually happy to see the officers:


Lost In Translation: What The Vancouver Taser Victim Was Really Saying To Police

Thursday November 15, 2007

CityNews.ca Staff

As the debate over the use of Tasers continues to rage, new details are emerging in connection with the death of 40-year-old Robert Dziekanski, who died moments after twice being shocked by one of the debilitating devices at a Vancouver airport last month. The frightening incident was caught on amateur video, and has since been viewed around the world by millions, prompting investigations into the widespread use of Tasers by law enforcement agencies across Canada.

Dziekanski, who spoke only Polish, arrived on a plane from Frankfurt, and became agitated after spending up to ten hours in the secure baggage area, where his mother mistakenly told him to wait.

A security guard compounded the confusion by insisting he was speaking Russian. In a tragic irony, translators now say the man was actually relieved when he spotted four Mounties approaching him. He reportedly said he was happy to see them because he thought they had come to save him. But seconds after they arrived, Dziekanski could be seen writhing on the ground in pain following the first of two jolts. Not long after he was pronounced dead.

A lawyer for the dead man's mother says the hasty police action leaves him astonished. "I was expecting to see a confrontation and a discussion and things to go sideways, and then the Tasering. That's not what you see," said attorney Walter Kosteckyj. "She had a son that was in distress, looking for help, frightened, and he wasn't getting that help and didn't get it."

The B.C. Coroner's office will investigate the death, and other probes are going to be carried out by the R.C.M.P., the Vancouver Airport, even the Polish government.

Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair believes Tasers can serve an important purpose. "When an individual is emotionally disturbed and in a crisis situation, they may often represent a significant danger to themselves and to others," he notes.

"(Tasers) have been used hundreds of times in the city of Toronto. There has not been a single public complaint about its use or any serious injury arising."

But that's no longer the case in B.C.

 

[Redroom Studios]

ya, I heard that last bit by Chief Blair on the CBC evening news. I dont remember names of previous cases but I am certain that I have heard of tasering deaths in Toronto due to over zealous police action. Total b.s. - no matter what the situation the cops would insist that tasering is safe. I wouldnt doubt that many of them own stock in the taser manufacturing companies.

This current case in Vancouver is terribly tragic and regretable. Must agree that all the official statements I have heard smack of "spin" doctoring to cover the asses of their own people.

Perhaps they come up with some sort of tranquilizer dart to subdue people... that seems far less violent...

what a world this is! makes you wish there was a god...

 

[lordmandeep]

actually i think your referring to a almighty public avenger rather then God.

come on Capital G on God... !!!

 

[unimaginative2]

The luckiest thing is that this man was a visitor from a foreign country. The Polish government seems to be getting quite rightfully upset about this, and they will push for an investigation. Unfortunately, if you're just some Canadian like Ian Bush, nobody's looking out for you and your family will have to pay out-of-pocket to get the incident investigated at all.

 

[Hydrogen]

A security guard compounded the confusion by insisting he was speaking Russian. In a tragic irony, translators now say the man was actually relieved when he spotted four Mounties approaching him. He reportedly said he was happy to see them because he thought they had come to save him. But seconds after they arrived, Dziekanski could be seen writhing on the ground in pain following the first of two jolts. Not long after he was pronounced dead.

How could these translators claim to know what this guy was saying? How could they know what was said beyond the glass wall?

 

[unimaginative2]

Well, the door was open and it was all caught on video.

Transcript

 

[salvius]

Yup... the transcript is the final straw. And that in supposedly international Canada we have no translators, no slavophiles WHATSOEVER to help the man out.

Not that I'm surprised. My aunt and uncle had to wait 30 minutes at Pearson because they spoke German but not a word of English; the security was quite unpleasant and basically pushed them into a room where they had to wait thirty minutes until a guy came who also could not speak German but communicated with them using basic gestures. Incredible.

 

[MisterF]

Amnesty International reports 290 deaths from tasers in the USA and Canada by law enforcement officials since 2001.

That's just disgusting. 16 in Canada since 2004 according to Wikipedia. Why are these things still being used?

Digital cameras along with the internet have finally started bring police corruption into the spotlight. This is just like the demonstration in Montebello that the Quebec police infiltrated and tried to provoke a riot, then tried to storm the police line. Of course they denied it and then minimized it, but it was blatantly obvious they were lying.

Who oversees police forces? Is there a civilian body that watches what they do?

 

[ganjavih]

I don't think the absolute numbers tell us very much. What is the death rate percentage-wise? What sort of death rate are we willing to tolerate? Also keep in mind that a certain number of the Taser deaths were complicated by pre-existing medical problems or intoxication. I haven't decided yet if this was a criminal act or just an unfortunate incident. Certainly, in the hospital, there is a small risk of death any time an agitated patient needs to be sedated with injectable medication.

 

[ShonTron]

If I just heard that in a confrontation, a man died after being hit by a taser, I'd would be wondering about it, but think it was an unfortunate incident.

However, in this case, there is a video, in which it is clear the man was shocked twice (and quite likely a third, perhaps a fourth time), the four horsemen (slang for RCMP) were clearly unprofessional. That transcript above is all I need now to say that manslaughter charges are warranted (not that it is with 100% certainty manslaughter, but there's enough there for charges).

The police went in trigger-happy ("Taser him" - "Yes") and fired at least twice, the second and subsequent times when he was on the floor. No attempt to reason or use only bodily force.

Is there a role for tasers? Probably. But this was done all wrong. It also makes you wonder about the other less-publicised cases. And this being the dame force that been involved in several recent questionable deaths and incidents in British Columbia and RCMP, Ian Bush being just one example.