VIA Rail

[Trackside_Treasure]

While wondering how many Venture sets would be getting the F40-insurance, in three days it's been only one set. Set 14 with 6413, operating on a regular slot in the rotation. The first day, leading. The next two days, trailing in each direction, so wye-d in Ottawa.

 

[Bordercollie]

While wondering how many Venture sets would be getting the F40-insurance, in three days it's been only one set. Set 14 with 6413, operating on a regular slot in the rotation. The first day, leading. The next two days, trailing in each direction, so wye-d in Ottawa.

They may want the Charger leading since it's faster than the F40 pulling the consist.

Someone said it's only for problematic sets.

 

[nfitz]

To the contrary, they will find it harder to maintain the schedules when the F40s are providing the motive power to the trainsets as compared to a Charger.

I kind of assumed that the F40 was more there as a rescue locomotive, and to up the axle count, and if it came down to actually needing them, they'd pull the trainset from service after that run was completed. Did I assume wrong?

 

[Bordercollie]

I kind of assumed that the F40 was more there as a rescue locomotive, and to up the axle count, and if it came down to actually needing them, they'd pull the trainset from service after that run was completed. Did I assume wrong?

They are 4 axles short with the F40 so it doesn't make them faster. They have speed restrictions and can only go as fast as 95mph.

 

[Trackside_Treasure]

I kind of assumed that the F40 was more there as a rescue locomotive, and to up the axle count, and if it came down to actually needing them, they'd pull the trainset from service after that run was completed. Did I assume wrong?

I think it's there as an HEP-rescue locomotive. If the HEP fails only, otherwise the F40 is along for the ride only. I haven't been able to correlate the F40-added Ventures as being problematic HEP, or knowing how the F40's were assigned to certain sets.

 

[reaperexpress]

I kind of assumed that the F40 was more there as a rescue locomotive, and to up the axle count, and if it came down to actually needing them, they'd pull the trainset from service after that run was completed. Did I assume wrong?

The axle count is irrelevant because it's still less than 32

 

[Trackside_Treasure]

The axle count is irrelevant because it's still less than 32

VIA officially ruled out tacking cars (never heard about locomotives) onto Venture consists for safety and monitoring reasons - back in the fall of 2024 when CN imposed the crossing speed reductions. (VIA also said it rejected joining Venture sets at that time, then formulated a complete plan for full J-training of the Corridor in March, 2025 then rejected that plan.)

I also think VIA is pinning its hopes on its court cases against CN, still before the Quebec Superior Court, rather than making wholesale changes to its Venture operations. That has not prevented them from making stopgap changes like XL, DXS, now the F40 HEP tack-ons!

 

[smallspy]

I kind of assumed that the F40 was more there as a rescue locomotive, and to up the axle count, and if it came down to actually needing them, they'd pull the trainset from service after that run was completed. Did I assume wrong?

You assumed wrong.

As pointed out by Reaperexpress and Bordercollie, the axle count is still less than 32 with the addition of the F40.

The first set that they've been using for testing to dial this whole process in was led by the F40 westbound, so it was definitely providing motive power for the train at the least. Eastbound the trainset has the F40 trailing, so it may just be along for the ride at this point.

Or......they could use it for HEP, and free up another 400-ish horsepower for traction in the Charger.

Dan

 

[nfitz]

You assumed wrong.

As pointed out by Reaperexpress and Bordercollie, the axle count is still less than 32 with the addition of the F40.

The first set that they've been using for testing to dial this whole process in was led by the F40 westbound, so it was definitely providing motive power for the train at the least. Eastbound the trainset has the F40 trailing, so it may just be along for the ride at this point.

Or......they could use it for HEP, and free up another 400-ish horsepower for traction in the Charger.

If the axle count is still too low, it's only on the short trainsets. If it's neither there for axle count or rescue, then the implication could be that there's not enough power in the trainset as originally designed. Which seems unlikely to me (though with VIA and Siemens anything is possible). All seems very odd ...

 

[Bordercollie]

If the axle count is still too low, it's only on the short trainsets. If it's neither there for axle count or rescue, then the implication could be that there's not enough power in the trainset as originally designed. Which seems unlikely to me (though with VIA and Siemens anything is possible). All seems very odd ...

Apparently the F40 could not lead the train due to a broken windshield, which is why the train was Wye'd in Ottawa. At least this makes the train slightly faster than the F40 leading.

The extra locomotive is for backup incase the chargers HEP craps out.

Have you not been paying attention to what happened in Brockville? Multiple trains crapped out and had to be towed to TMC or MMC.

 

[nfitz]

Have you not been paying attention to what happened in Brockville? Multiple trains crapped out and had to be towed to TMC or MMC.

No I have not been paying attention. I think we are all paying attention.

 

[smallspy]

If the axle count is still too low, it's only on the short trainsets. If it's neither there for axle count or rescue, then the implication could be that there's not enough power in the trainset as originally designed. Which seems unlikely to me (though with VIA and Siemens anything is possible). All seems very odd ...

Okay, since it's still not registering.....
- The addition of the F40 is not for axle count.
- The addition of the F40 is not for traction power.
- The Siemens trainsets as they are built are sufficiently powered for both propulsion and onboard services.

If you go back a page you two, you'll see this whole thing came about from a particularly bad weekend were about 7 different trainsets had their HEP fail while enroute. Most of the legacy trains are already operating with two locos, so when the HEP failed on two of those, they were able to transfer the HEP to the second loco. Most of the Siemens sets, however, only have one loco so when the HEP fails on those there is no backup. Thus the addition of the F40 to this one set, and potentially others.

Dan

 

[reaperexpress]

If the axle count is still too low, it's only on the short trainsets. If it's neither there for axle count or rescue, then the implication could be that there's not enough power in the trainset as originally designed. Which seems unlikely to me (though with VIA and Siemens anything is possible). All seems very odd ...

No it's not only on the short trainsets, unless by "short" you mean everything other than those two 7-car sets. There are 4 axles per coach and locomotive.

 

[crs1026]

Okay, since it's still not registering.....
- The addition of the F40 is not for axle count.

Agreed, there is some basic math here. 24 axles plus 4 axles does not make 32 axles.

- The addition of the F40 is not for traction power.

Well, there have been photos on the interweb where the F40 is leading, so whether intended or not, the operating procedure has to accommodate this. The F40 is not always just a deadweight trailing along for the ride.

It doesn't prevent safe and productive operations, but it is a curiosity. Especially when so many runs depend on push-pull to avoid wyeing.

- The Siemens trainsets as they are built are sufficiently powered for both propulsion and onboard services.

Which makes the situation a bit of a headscratcher. To have that many failures is not coincidence so there is a smoking gun somewhere.

One would think that since the HEP power is part of the core spec, Siemens has an onus to fix it. We haven't heard what the root cause is or what it will take to fix it. Could be bad components, could be a systemmic build error, could be software related. Could simply be a need for better training and operating documentation. The core technology is in use all over the place in Siemens products - electric and diesel - so while it's a puzzle, it's hard to see this as a situation that is likely to continue over time.

I'm confident that VIA will not accept F40 trailers as the long term fix. Not nearly as serious a showstopper as say the LRC wheel/bearing issues which actually sidelined the equipment shortly after it went in service. Just something to, er, enjoy as an oddity until a solution is applied.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

Okay, since it's still not registering....

There's no reason to be so utterly rude. It's a discussion forum, not a peer-reviewed journal.

Please try to be kinder.

Also why repeat something, that someone else has also pointed out since, and I even acknowledged?

Agreed, there is some basic math here. 24 axles plus 4 axles does not make 32 axles.

I'm pretty sure that most people don't store it in their head how many axles a trainset has, or what the current limit is. And why the pile on? We don't need "me too" posts.

Though I don't see that anything precludes them to sticking on two old locos - could even stick a freight car between the old loco and the trainset. Surely if they are only doing this with one trainset, it's proof of concept at this stage for the HEP.