VIA Rail

[lenaitch]

considering that his government will beholden to the interests of western and rural voters who cannot comprehend that a rising tide lifts all boats.

Regardless of where their fan club is, no federal party will get the keys to the kingdom without winning Ontario and Quebec which have 2/3 of all ridings.

Nothing will ever get done if we have a federal government whose priorities swing violently from election cycle to election cycle developing our infrastructure.

And that doesn't happen at the provincial or municipal level?

 

[Urban Sky]

I have argued this on another thread but this is why the federal government is completely unfit to manage passenger rail expansion. I'm personally of the opinion that Metrolinx should either develop an intercity transport brand, or expand GO to take over all intra-Ontario corridor routes from VIA.

Again, how do you want any provincial railroad(s) to effectively manage the overlapping intra-Ontarian, intra-Quebec and inter-provincial routes? You need all Corridor routes under one roof and HFR would achieve that.

Nothing will ever get done if we have a federal government whose priorities swing violently from election cycle to election cycle developing our infrastructure. It's highly unlikely HFR will survive the coming CPC supermajority, particularly when viewing PP's past comments on passenger rail, and when considering that his government will beholden to the interests of western and rural voters who cannot comprehend that a rising tide lifts all boats.

The CPC is pro-infrastructure, pro-investment and anti-spending. As long as the private sector is willing to cough up the necessary capital funding for HFR, the CPC certainly has no incentive to nix it. And there certainly is no way for any party to win anything close to a super-majority while catering only to “western and rural voters”.

Compare this to a conservative government in our own province of Ontario that is overseeing a massive expansion of passenger rail both in the GTHA and even to the north where no sane case exists beyond serving the area with busses. Federally, passenger rail will never be a priority. Provincially, it will always be something necessary to chase votes. It's simple political calculus.

Nobody is stopping the provinces (ON or QC) from providing funding for HxR and securing concessions like additional stations or minimum frequencies for Local services in return.

Put VIA's viable core in the hands of those that can manage it competently,

That’s exactly what is happening with HFR, as nobody in this country has the necessary experience and competencies to run the Corridor the way you envision.

and let the rest fall where it may. I can't imagine many would shed a tear if the Canadian or Ocean went away,

Sure, if your goal is to undermine any rationale for the federal government providing any guidance or funding for passenger rail infrastructure,then you definitely have the right policies. Just have a look at how surprisingly painful it is to cross international borders (even within the Schengen Area!) in Europe.

and any truly necessary remote services can be taken over locally like what happened with services operated by First Nations.

Sure, if your goal is to see operating subsidies explode, then having each remote route run by a different railroad with their own overheads, fleets and full-service maintenance center surely achieves that. I just have no idea what the problem is which you are trying to fix.

Anyways, you may want to ignore non-Corridor VIA (as it’s not worth agonizing about it, if you remember your own wise words) for now and instead watch how things unfold with HFR…

 

[dowlingm]

Reminder for those who invoke Brightline as a comparator to our situation. The FECR created Brightline (All Aboard Florida).

BL are not some plucky upstart who used Jack Donaghy tactics and railfan forum wishful thinking to outwit the ogres of the freight company and get an operations deal beyond the dreams of VIA Rail’s dull bureaucracy.

 

[smallspy]

Reminder for those who invoke Brightline as a comparator to our situation. The FECR created Brightline (All Aboard Florida).

BL are not some plucky upstart who used Jack Donaghy tactics and railfan forum wishful thinking to outwit the ogres of the freight company and get an operations deal beyond the dreams of VIA Rail’s dull bureaucracy.

It should also be reminded that they got billions of dollars in public funds through subsidies, government loans, property tax deferrals, etc. to build and upgrade their "private" railway.

Dan

 

[Allandale25]

Proposal deadline looms for high frequency rail bidders - Daily Commercial News

At close to 1,000 kilometres it’s the world’s largest train project, and in just a few months Canadians will begin to receive answers to some of the basic questions associated with the massive federal high-frequency rail project that will serve the Toront

canada.constructconnect.com

 

[reaperexpress]

Reminder for those who invoke Brightline as a comparator to our situation. The FECR created Brightline (All Aboard Florida).

BL are not some plucky upstart who used Jack Donaghy tactics and railfan forum wishful thinking to outwit the ogres of the freight company and get an operations deal beyond the dreams of VIA Rail’s dull bureaucracy.

Brightline was indeed created by Florida East Coast Industries (FECI), the parent company of the Florida East Coast Railway (FECR) but in 2017 the FECR was sold to GrupoMexico so it is no longer part of the same company as Brightline.

It should also be reminded that they got billions of dollars in public funds through subsidies, government loans, property tax deferrals, etc. to build and upgrade their "private" railway.

Dan

CN also got billions of dollars in public funds to upgrade and maintain their "private" railway in the name of Via Rail. This is not a relevant distinction between Via and Brightline.

 

[roger1818]

Brightline was indeed created by Florida East Coast Industries (FECI), the parent company of the Florida East Coast Railway (FECR) but in 2017 the FECR was sold to GrupoMexico so it is no longer part of the same company as Brightline.

Presumably FECI made sure contracts were in place to ensure appropriate contracts were in place to ensure Brightline’s priority when FECR was sold. Something it appears as if the Canadian government didn’t ensure when they sold CN (or asked CP if they could take over their passenger rail services).

CN also got billions of dollars in public funds to upgrade and maintain their "private" railway in the name of Via Rail. This is not a relevant distinction between Via and Brightline.

Was it billions? I’m only aware of the one project since the privatization of CN, to triple track a small portion of the Kingston Sub, which has allowed an historic number of trains between Toronto and Ottawa (the “glory days” only had a couple trains a day).

 

[smallspy]

CN also got billions of dollars in public funds to upgrade and maintain their "private" railway in the name of Via Rail. This is not a relevant distinction between Via and Brightline.

But there is.

Brightline is advertised and is loudly branded as a "private operation". The one line that it owns - as opposed to the line that it shares - was built using various highway grants, easements, tax deferrals, etc. in spite of that fact.

VIA is not private, and has never, ever tried to portray itself as such.

Dan

 

[kEiThZ]

Regardless of where their fan club is, no federal party will get the keys to the kingdom without winning Ontario and Quebec which have 2/3 of all ridings.

The CPC is pro-infrastructure, pro-investment and anti-spending. As long as the private sector is willing to cough up the necessary capital funding for HFR, the CPC certainly has no incentive to nix it. And there certainly is no way for any party to win anything close to a super-majority while catering only to “western and rural voters”.

All debatable. They are not being elected because of HFR. And if they scrapped it with since excuse, there's unlikely to be substantial consequences. And let's not ignore the party's immature revanchist and venegful streak where they just want to undo everything, because Trudeau.

 

[kEiThZ]

Bids closed. They got three.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1816210011351310522

 

[generalcanada]

Bids closed. They got three.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1816210011351310522

So all 3 rfqd bidders submitted rfp's

As a reminder, theese are the bidders:

• Cadence — CDPQ Infra, AtkinsRealis (formerly SNC-Lavalin), Systra Canada, Keolis Canada
• Intercity Rail Developers — Intercity Development Partners, Meridiam, Kilmer Transportation, First Rail Holdings, Jacobs, Hatch, CIMA+, RATP Dev Canada, First Group, Renfe Operadora
• Partenaires Ferroviaires QCONNEXION Rail Partners — Fengate, John Laing, Bechtel, WSP, Deutsche Bahn.

 

[lenaitch]

And let's not ignore the party's immature revanchist and venegful streak where they just want to undo everything, because Trudeau.

They all do that. Chretien and the "Cadillac helicopters'; Ford and green energy projects, basic income pilot.

 

[crs1026]

Presumably FECI made sure contracts were in place to ensure appropriate contracts were in place to ensure Brightline’s priority when FECR was sold. Something it appears as if the Canadian government didn’t ensure when they sold CN (or asked CP if they could take over their passenger rail services).

FEC is a rare and nonstandard railway line - small, tightly scheduled, built to high quality, and not that many freight trains. So its right of way is somewhat more passenger friendly, especially with the upgrades that were added. So the passenger aspect is not impacting operations, and is contributing to the bottom line, as opposed to seeking entry at lowest possible cost.

- Paul

 

[reaperexpress]

But there is.

Brightline is advertised and is loudly branded as a "private operation". The one line that it owns - as opposed to the line that it shares - was built using various highway grants, easements, tax deferrals, etc. in spite of that fact.

VIA is not private, and has never, ever tried to portray itself as such.

Okay... but what does that have to do with this discussion? Nobody here is claiming that Brightline was built without government expenditure.

We are debating whether it is possible for a passenger train operating company to make an arrangement with a freight railway that enables them to reliably operate over their tracks.

 

[micheal_can]

Okay... but what does that have to do with this discussion? Nobody here is claiming that Brightline was built without government expenditure.

We are debating whether it is possible for a passenger train operating company to make an arrangement with a freight railway that enables them to reliably operate over their tracks.

We have one in Canada - Rocky Mountaineer.However, they are not a passenger service in the sense of it being used primarily for transporting passengers.