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VIA Rail

Interesting. I agree there isn't a power issue with a single locomotive. The worry I have with using cab cars more has to do with the physics of pushing a train. On straight track, if a car derails while being pushed, the slight offset resulting from the derailment will create an outward lateral force, pushing the car away from the centre of the track. When being pulled, that lateral force will be inward and pull the car back to the centre of the track, tending to keep it aligned on the centre of the track.

I know multiple people who complain bitterly about the rough ride in the last LRC/HEP coach, caused by those trailing units causing the slack to run in when the throttle is opened, and then run out again during braking.

And, interestingly, I know of VIA engineers who say they isolate the tail end locomotive and operate with just the leading unit on line, in the interest of a better riding qualiity and better control of slack action.

As to comments about the paint scheme and maple leafs - it's only paint, people. Probably the least material thing to comment on with the new equipment. With no impact whatsoever on how well the trains work. And whether it meets your artistic tastes, it's a fairly benign treatment in a country where federal funding always results in placement of Government logos....why would our taxpayer funded trains be the exception to obsessive branding of anything paid for by Ottawa? Be happy there are no wraps with politicians' faces on the side of those trains. Canada is a nanny state, we might as well celebrate the fact. I like the look, myself.

- Paul

PS - Some people scrutinizing the many on-line photos of the recently delivered train are debating whether there was accidental overspray of yellow paint on the car roofs - hard to tell from photos. I didn't see the trains and don't have a position, but if you have a good shot of your own......
 
I should add that the designer in me doesn’t like the red maple leaf slapped on to the side.
At least it looks like they tried to have it fit in. The way they put full waving flags on the LRC coaches and renaissance coaches looks ridiculous.
They should've just had the maple leaf beside the Via text like their logo.
Yes, they should simplify their logo to be VIA* where * is maple leaf. They seem to think they need to spell out VIA Rail Canada with a maple leaf flag flying off the d on Canada as part of their logo.
 
Regarding Brightline, my guess is that since it was a small order (only 5 trainsets), the NRE cost of designing a cab car exceeded the cost of purchasing 5 extra locomotives. Also, I gather the plan is to eventually expand the trainsets up to 10 cars, so maybe they would need a second locomotive then.

I'm going to bet that now that the NRE is done and cab cars are an option, Brightline will eventually buy cab cars and reconfigure all their trains. Ordering cab cars would let them double the number of trains they have without ordering a single locomotive, while adding seats/amenity space to a trainset. Would let them substantially improve frequency from the current hourly that they do.
 
I'm going to bet that now that the NRE is done and cab cars are an option, Brightline will eventually buy cab cars and reconfigure all their trains. Ordering cab cars would let them double the number of trains they have without ordering a single locomotive, while adding seats/amenity space to a trainset. Would let them substantially improve frequency from the current hourly that they do.

Maybe, but so far they haven't. Brightline's "Orlando expansion will add 11 locomotives and 20 coaches, with an option for 30 more coaches." Considering they run 4 car trains (1 business, 2 coach and 1 baggage/coach), that is 2 locomotives per train, plus a spare. This order will double their fleet size from 5 to 10 trains.

I guess the option could include cab cars, but to double the number of trains to 20, but they would need 20 cab cars, 10 more business cars, and 10 more baggage/coach cars (they will only have 10 of each of the latter 2) for a total of 40 cars (not 30 the option allows for) if they want all services on all trains. They will also only have singe track from Cocoa to Orlando (though it is being built with future double tracking in mind), so getting more than hourly service will be expensive. I think they would rather put that time and money towards their Tampa extension.
 
Brightline is definitely a ways off from increasing frequencies. But after their extensions to Tampa, this is a pretty obvious path for service expansion.
 
Apologies if this has been posted already but I don't think it has been.

 
Apologies if this has been posted already but I don't think it has been.


I don't the optimism when we don't even have official launch of the procurement process yet.
 
Agreed, though the metric unit is spelt tonne. One ton is approximately equal to 0.9 tonnes.
Corrected, thanks! (I'm learning more about the correct spelling and usage of the English language posting on forums like this than by doing two university degrees in said language...)

What is the mass of an empty Venture car? The link you provided says the Charger locomotive "weighs just 271,000 pounds" but it doesn't mention the mass of the Venture cars. I suspect this is because each car will be different depending on how it is configured, but it would be nice to have a ballpark or range.
Even though I couldn't find any weight for the Venture either, the Viaggio (as the older European cousin) has a tare weight of 46 tonnes and I have every reason to believe that any FRA-compliant design would be quite a bit heavier than that...

Interesting. I agree there isn't a power issue with a single locomotive. The worry I have with using cab cars more has to do with the physics of pushing a train. On straight track, if a car derails while being pushed, the slight offset resulting from the derailment will create an outward lateral force, pushing the car away from the centre of the track. When being pulled, that lateral force will be inward and pull the car back to the centre of the track, tending to keep it aligned on the centre of the track.

I would assume they have safety measures in place that will detect a derailment like this and automatically have the locomotive slow down when pushing, putting the train in tension, thus pulling the cars back to the centre. Otherwise, if unchecked, the situation could quickly escalate (especially at higher speeds) and could result in the train accordioning.
At its longest configuration, it is 7 car lengths long, so approximately 240 metres (8 car lengths à 30 metres). At its top speed of 110 mph, a train travels 49 metres a second. Therefore, it takes less than 5 seconds to travel the train's entire length. If the train derails (or worse: hits an obstacle) at such speeds, it's virtually irrelevant whether the train was accelerating or decelerating at the moment of impact.

According to the German Wikipedia page of the Eschede disaster, the separation of the train (ICE 1, thus locomotives on both ends) after the third car triggered an emergency break brake application on the detached cars and the trailing locomotive within half a second, while also lowering its pantograph. However, it took the leading locomotive 71 seconds to break brake from a speed of 170 km/h to standstill and whereas it survived almost intact, the rest of the train looked like this:
1633148521203.png

Regarding Brightline, my guess is that since it was a small order (only 5 trainsets), the NRE cost of designing a cab car exceeded the cost of purchasing 5 extra locomotives. Also, I gather the plan is to eventually expand the trainsets up to 10 cars, so maybe they would need a second locomotive then.
First they'll need to resume service again (which had been suspended since March 25, 2020, for obvious reasons, but is expected to resume again next month)...
 
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Here is another video of the new train. What makes this video interesting is the camera pans to follow the train. As a result you can see the back of trailing Charger locomotive 2201. Looking at a freeze frame image I cut from the video, you can see that it doesn't have a standard Janney coupler, but instead, what looks like a semi-permanent coupler. This rules out any possibility of VIA mixing the new fleet with LRC and HEP cars, unless they are coupled to the very end of the train, which makes bidirectional operation more difficult.


VIA 2201 rear..png
 
Yes, the trainsets are semi-permanently coupled and that apparently includes the locomotives. As you say, it should allow for deadhead equipment moves of other fleets at the trailing end, but preclude the "mix and match" present-day VIA is famous for...

I knew that the coaches would be semi-permanently coupled together, but it was never clear how the locomotive would be coupled to the coaches. As I mentioned in post #9,978, Transport Action Canada claimed that it would be a standard coupler. Obviously they were (once again) mistaken. There really isn't much need to semi-permanently couple the locomotive to the train (passengers aren't walking between the two), so the only reason to semi-permanently couple it would be to increase flexibility, and allow trains of any configuration, rather than requiring locomotives to be coupled to a Business 3A coach (and vice versa). OTOH, using a standard coupler would make it quicker and easier to swap out the locomotive if necessary and allow standard coaches to be inserted between the locomotive and the first Venture coach.

Does anyone know if this type of semi-permanent coupler is bidirectional? In other words, do coaches have the same coupler at both ends or are there different front and back couplers?
 
I would assume that the another benefit of semi-permanent couplings is increased lateral and longitudinal rigidity , but that would depend on the specific design and is almost certainly less important than the operational benefits of standardized couplers.
 

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