|
|
|
VIA Rail
- Thread starter ehlow
- Start date
dowlingm
Senior Member
Given the flogging of the 42s up and down the corridor on VIA's highest speed runs, I suspect the main attraction for the P42s will be for parting out engine management circuitry as cheaper than getting more from GE. Amtrak and P40 operators like CTDOT will have more and more locos as Chargers and their long range cousins enter service, but those will be wired for Amtrak electrical standards, PTC and what not (isn't there a difference in use of sanding too?) so as long as they still have fatigue life why bother having to do work on VIA ones to have them meet those requirements?
EnviroTO
Senior Member
That is an interesting read. I'm not sure how they can call that a "plan" as it talks more about what is currently the situation (and it isn't good) and not much at all about what they are proposing the solution to be. So what is their locomotive strategy outside the corridor? They have corridor train sets now ordered and being delivered starting 2022 supposedly, but they have a long distance fleet that is in bad shape and it looks like the option of refurbishment, especially in light of emissions requirements, is a non-starter. Is this the end of the long haul service or is an announcement coming?
roger1818
Senior Member
Not sure if I understand your question correctly or not, but the P42s need to be refurbished for reliable operation (having locomotives break down in the middle of a trip isn't good for customer service), but VIA can't refurbish them, as that would trigger the need to update to them to the latest standards.
Given that the Chargers will be better than the P42s. and they will be receiving enough to replace all of their P42s (and more), I don't see any need for VIA to keep their aging P42s.
roger1818
Senior Member
First of all, that corporate plan is from 2017, prior to receiving approval to order the new fleet. There are 3 newer corporate plans available (and the 2021 one will hopefully be published soon).
As for the long distance fleet, it certainly is an issue (it becomes more apparent how bad it is in the 2020-2024 Corporate Plan). Unfortunately, as the long distance fleet replacement will be more expensive than the corridor fleet replacement, as VIA owns over 250 long distance cars (compared to the 160 corridor cars replaced). I don't know if any government will want to invest that much money in the long distance services. Then again, they won't want the responsibility of cancelling the services either, so they will most likely die a slow and painful death.
roger1818
Senior Member
On an unrelated note, Railways Explained recently did a video on the (non-existent) HSR in Canada. Well worth a watch.
bgb_ca
New Member
I have a trip booked from Kitchener to London on Sunday, and I got a call from VIA that they are changing their trains to buses on that route for the next two weekends.
Besides the fact my business class train seat is now a seat on a crowded bus, they at least are doing a partial refund on my fare to bring it back to what an economy seat costs.
I am guessing there is going to be some track maintenance somewhere on that line over the next few weekends? Anyone have this happen to them before? Who do they use for this substitution? I'm guessing it will still be all stops (St. Mary's and Stratford?)
It sucks that this is the only affordable option with Greyhound gone.
Besides the fact my business class train seat is now a seat on a crowded bus, they at least are doing a partial refund on my fare to bring it back to what an economy seat costs.
I am guessing there is going to be some track maintenance somewhere on that line over the next few weekends? Anyone have this happen to them before? Who do they use for this substitution? I'm guessing it will still be all stops (St. Mary's and Stratford?)
It sucks that this is the only affordable option with Greyhound gone.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
Likely if the Conservatives win there will not be any new investment in the long distance fleet and things will need to stay as they are.
There is a plan to rebuild all HEP II units which will take until 2023, so we will need to see what happens then. Some can join the long distance fleet once the new trains arrive in the corridor.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
The best thing about GO to London is that it would force VIA to upgrade the Windsor-Aldershot portions of the line increasing the speed, frequency, and reliability of the service.
London is the fourth busiest station in the system and Windsor seventh. We have already seen GO take a bite out of KW to Union ridership and as GO expands, VIA will become basically useless to people in Kitchener/Guelph/Stratford. SWO is a ridership and revenue generator that VIA cannot afford to sacrifice. In fact on a per-person/km travelled basis it requires the least amount of subsidy in the whole system. If GO reaches London {and got knows they couldn't be any slower or less reliable than VIA}, then the probably lower fares will blow a whole in VIA's wallet. Added to this it would mean VIA would have to greatly reduce frequency to stem the losses meaning far less frequency and hence poorer service to Windsor & Sarnia making VIA less appealing to those riders as well.
Even the threat of all day GO service to London might be enough to get VIA to finally inject some REAL money in the SWO corridors.
London is the fourth busiest station in the system and Windsor seventh. We have already seen GO take a bite out of KW to Union ridership and as GO expands, VIA will become basically useless to people in Kitchener/Guelph/Stratford. SWO is a ridership and revenue generator that VIA cannot afford to sacrifice. In fact on a per-person/km travelled basis it requires the least amount of subsidy in the whole system. If GO reaches London {and got knows they couldn't be any slower or less reliable than VIA}, then the probably lower fares will blow a whole in VIA's wallet. Added to this it would mean VIA would have to greatly reduce frequency to stem the losses meaning far less frequency and hence poorer service to Windsor & Sarnia making VIA less appealing to those riders as well.
Even the threat of all day GO service to London might be enough to get VIA to finally inject some REAL money in the SWO corridors.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
It's not the same market.
GO is for people who want to go from London to ST Mary's or Kitchener or Brampton. VIA is more for customers who want to travel longer distances.
Would be nice if you could transfer and pay extra to catch the VIA train at Kitchener and ride Express to Union.
Upgrades could allow via to run express and GO to serve intermediate stops.
They could build smaller stations along the way for GO transit. All you need is a Presto kiosk and some shelters.
roger1818
Senior Member
Even if the Liberals win, it is highly unlikely there will be any new investment in the long distance fleet. I am not even sure the NDP would financially back a new long distance fleet. It is a hot potato that no one wants to catch.
We already know. In the 2020-2024 Corporate Plan, under "Heritage Fleet Modernization" (pg. 17) it says:
And then in section 4, under "Non-Corridor fleet renewal program" (pg. 23/24) it says:
ssiguy2
Senior Member
VIA also has another problem which they generally ignore................they have to decarbonize their fleet.
There is no way, in hell, that Ottawa will demand the people and businesses spend money and effort to reach net-zero by 2050 and yet gives one of it's key Crown Corporations a pass. We are also not just talking about the Corridor either but the entire network from Vancouver to Halifax.
I don't think we are going to see any electrification of the routes within 10 years. Not until battery and hydrogen technology develop and the infrastructure is in place will Ottawa really consider zero emission vehicles for VIA. The first such trials would obviously take place in SWO and possibly Ottawa to Montreal.
There is no way, in hell, that Ottawa will demand the people and businesses spend money and effort to reach net-zero by 2050 and yet gives one of it's key Crown Corporations a pass. We are also not just talking about the Corridor either but the entire network from Vancouver to Halifax.
I don't think we are going to see any electrification of the routes within 10 years. Not until battery and hydrogen technology develop and the infrastructure is in place will Ottawa really consider zero emission vehicles for VIA. The first such trials would obviously take place in SWO and possibly Ottawa to Montreal.
Last edited:
Urban Sky
Senior Member
How often do we have to talk about your ever-same talking points? If you want to electrify this country's rail network, you will have to first get CN and CP on the table and see whatever solutions they might be willing to tolerate on their infrastructure or to even adopt for their own operations. They are the whales, whereas VIA is just a shrimp...
Last edited:
rbt
Senior Member
This is a tough problem. Hitachi is working on train to do a 300mile route in the UK from battery but that's the longest I've seen. Most target a 100 mile.
A battery powered The Canadian train appears technically possible but it'll be a royal pain in the ass due to the very large distances between major stops.
A company in Utah sells 1MWh of stored energy within a standard 40 foot container (designed for solar storage; they have a 1 hour quick-charge time and about a 4 hour discharge-time) but you probably need 25 to 30 containers to make the trip from Toronto to Winnipeg. Obviously some electronics needs to change to power a locomotive but it seems useful to use an off-the-shelf product as a reference point.
Charging at small towns isn't practical; the grid wouldn't support it. So charging would be major stations only likely via a cruise-ship style 8MW plug over a 90 minute period OR swapping the battery cars.
In either case, they're hauling around 50-60 tonnes of battery (that's lighter than I expected) and making even the longest Canadian line trains 50% longer.
Last edited:
roger1818
Senior Member
Just because there haven’t been any press releases about VIA’s plans to electrify 20 years from now, doesn’t mean they aren’t having internal conversations about it. After all, VIA did put forward the option to electrify HFR so they must be some discussions about it. As you said we are at least 10 years away from hydrogen or battery technology being feasible for the distances VIA travels outside the corridor.
As has been said many times before, on routes where VIA uses other railway’s track (which is 97% of the track they run on), their best bet is to wait for the host railway to electrify, and then use whatever infrastructure they build.