VIA Rail

[Northern Light]

I would add Vancouver-Seattle (and on to Portland) to the list (249 (plus 299) km and metro populations of 2.5, 4.0 and 2.8 million respectively). Prior to COVID, Amtrak was running 2 trains a day between Vancouver and Seattle. To increase that, significant (and very expensive) upgrades would be necessary through White Rock and across the Fraser River. Hardly a value proposition if they are only wanting to add two additional trains a day like the table suggests. Now if they could go to 8 or more trains a day, then the economics could be different.

One puzzle is this is listed as a "Former VIA Rail route" on the table. Did VIA ever operate a train on this route?

Already listed:

 

[Northern Light]

I would add Vancouver-Seattle (and on to Portland) to the list (249 (plus 299) km and metro populations of 2.5, 4.0 and 2.8 million respectively). Prior to COVID, Amtrak was running 2 trains a day between Vancouver and Seattle. To increase that, significant (and very expensive) upgrades would be necessary through White Rock and across the Fraser River. Hardly a value proposition if they are only wanting to add two additional trains a day like the table suggests. Now if they could go to 8 or more trains a day, then the economics could be different.

One puzzle is this is listed as a "Former VIA Rail route" on the table. Did VIA ever operate a train on this route?

Amtrak can service this corridor.

And already proposes to add an additional frequency in the next few years.

 

[roger1818]

Already listed:

View attachment 342149

I was talking about the list of routes suggested by @ManyQuestions. If you re-read my post, I refer to its inclusion in the above table.

 

[roger1818]

Amtrak can service this corridor.

Amtrak does serve this corridor. My question is why the article says it was once served by VIA Rail.

And already proposes to add an additional frequency in the next few years.

AFAIK, the additional frequencies will only be added if there are track upgrades north of the 49th.

 

[Northern Light]

AFAIK, the additional frequencies will only be added if there are track upgrades north of the 49th.

I don't recall seeing that as a requirement in the Amtrak plan explicitly, but that doesn't mean it that its not implicit.

 

[Bordercollie]

Will CP retain the right to use the Havelock sub even after HFR is built?

 

[DirectionNorth]

Will CP retain the right to use the Havelock sub even after HFR is built?

I think that CP will insist on using the sub during negotiations, with certain slots given to them. I would also think that these would be late-night slots.

 

[nfitz]

I think that CP will insist on using the sub during negotiations, with certain slots given to them. I would also think that these would be late-night slots.

An interesting question is whether they'd want rights to use Havelock to Smiths Falls, if it got reopened.

 

[robmausser]

I think that CP will insist on using the sub during negotiations, with certain slots given to them. I would also think that these would be late-night slots.

An important note to make that is implied in your post but not necessarily clear for those in the back: because VIA owns the track, unless there is some kind of mechanical failure of a CP train, VIA trains will always get priority, regardless of time of day. But like you said it would most likely be late night after VIA has gone to sleep. Because its not really possible to find a timeslot for a freight train between frequent service.

In other words, whether freight is allowed or not, it should not impede the service of passenger trains. Which is far from what can be said on the CN line.

 

[DirectionNorth]

An interesting question is whether they'd want rights to use Havelock to Smiths Falls, if it got reopened.

In my opinion, any freight from Havelock to Smith Falls would only be occasional, and again, during late-nights only. My belief is that CP will ask for slots during the negotiations for the sale of the existing Havelock sub, therefore, that does not apply to the section east of there.

 

[lenaitch]

CP will obviously need slots west of Havelock so long as revenue traffic is there. East of there, I can see CP being interested only as an emergency 'relief valve' should there be an issue with their existing mainline, providing the price is right.

 

[Bordercollie]

In my opinion, any freight from Havelock to Smith Falls would only be occasional, and again, during late-nights only. My belief is that CP will ask for slots during the negotiations for the sale of the existing Havelock sub, therefore, that does not apply to the section east of there.

Isn't there one train daily to Havelock from Toronto except Sunday?
At least the train will be faster. It won't be a 12 hour round trip.
And I guess they would need to retain local switching in Peterborough also.
Are there any customer's between Toronto and havelock?

 

[lenaitch]

Isn't there one train daily to Havelock from Toronto except Sunday?
At least the train will be faster. It won't be a 12 hour round trip.
And I guess they would need to retain local switching in Peterborough also.
Are there any customer's between Toronto and havelock?

I don't think it is daily but others likely know better. Cavan Agri Services - just west of P'boro - has a rail connection but it's been a while since I've over that way to know if it is still active.

 

[ShonTron]

CP took over quite a bit of CN’s track in Peterborough in 1990 when CN abandoned Uxbridge to Peterborough (the last major customer, in Lindsay, was closing around that time) but since then, most customers closed or switched to trucks.

All the ex-CN spurs in Peterborough were eventually removed by CP (many of which are now trails), with only Quaker Oats left as a customer of any significance. I’m not even sure if they still get rail deliveries anymore.

 

[DirectionNorth]

All the ex-CN spurs in Peterborough were eventually removed by CP (many of which are now trails), with only Quaker Oats left as a customer of any significance. I’m not even sure if they still get rail deliveries anymore.

I don't think it is daily but others likely know better. Cavan Agri Services - just west of P'boro - has a rail connection but it's been a while since I've over that way to know if it is still active.

I counted 4-6 customers along the line from Toronto to Havelock and Blue Mountain, using a satellite map.

I believe that Quaker Oats still uses rail, I found this: Source, and that implies they are still using trains.

I could not find anything for Agri.

I have also heard that there are 3 weekly trains (each direction) along this line, but I cannot remember where I heard that and cannot find a source.