VIA Rail

[roger1818]

These are only for the corridor.

No. The one I linked to is a full schedule (which also includes the corridor). You just need to scroll past the corridor schedules.

 

[Bordercollie]

No. The one I linked to is a full schedule (which also includes the corridor). You just need to scroll past the corridor schedules.

Takes like 8 Hours to get from Sudbury to Toronto? I'm sure that's padded. You should be able to do it in 6.

Sudbury Jct.*04:49
Parry Sound(CN Station /Gare CN)4208:42
Washago4210:59
Toronto, ONET / HE(Union Station / Gare Union)AR14:29

 

[roger1818]

Takes like 8 Hours to get from Sudbury to Toronto? I'm sure that's padded. You should be able to do it in 6.

Sudbury Jct.*04:49
Parry Sound(CN Station /Gare CN)4208:42
Washago4210:59
Toronto, ONET / HE(Union Station / Gare Union)AR14:29

Yup. In 2019 VIA padded the schedule and increased the travel time between Toronto and Vancouver from 3 to 4 days to improve on time performance.

 

[Urban Sky]

Takes like 8 Hours to get from Sudbury to Toronto? I'm sure that's padded. You should be able to do it in 6.

Sudbury Jct.*04:49
Parry Sound(CN Station /Gare CN)4208:42
Washago4210:59
Toronto, ONET / HE(Union Station / Gare Union)AR14:29

The fastest scheduled travel time I could find between Sudbury and Toronto was exactly 6:00 hours (back in April 1978, which was the last schedule before VIA abandoned the CP routing between both cities):

However, the question is not how fast you could be, but what travel time (and frequency!) CN would be willing to provide you and how it would compare with the actual travel time...

 

[TerryJohnson]

Hey man, I appreciate all the text, but you misunderstood my post. My social circle says this to ME, that the train (at least in North America) is for poor people. I dont share these beliefs. I take the train everywhere I go, including Canada, Europe and the USA.

Once life gets back to normal, post a few pictures of the business class meals and drinks on VIA on social media. Unless your friends are happy to fork out 10x more for business class air fares, they might be intrigued!

At my previous company I introduced a simple travel perk policy: Take the train and we'll pay for business class, which is comparable in price to flying economy or paying mileage anyway.

 

[SFO-YYZ]

Once life gets back to normal, post a few pictures of the business class meals and drinks on VIA on social media. Unless your friends are happy to fork out 10x more for business class air fares, they might be intrigued!

At my previous company I introduced a simple travel perk policy: Take the train and we'll pay for business class, which is comparable in price to flying economy or paying mileage anyway.

Good for you. This is pretty standard travel policy across the board for most of the TO-based (private sector) corporations. In my current company, the policy is to reimburse all travel on VIA business class for all employee travel, and Acela first class when traveling in the Northeast corridor (we even mandate that employees must book business or first when traveling by rail). It's just so much cheaper in that there's less price variations with Amtrak and Acela esp for last min bookings.

 

[kEiThZ]

Canada is *probably* getting a new intercity rail line, but it’s not exactly high speed rail. We talk about how we got here, and why we aren’t overjoyed in our latest video:

This is some poor analysis that substantially ignores political reality. HSR has now been discussed in some form for nearly a half century. Nobody can find a way to finance that much. So how much longer do folks want to wait before we get shovels in the ground?

It'll be way easier to lobby for improvements to HFR than lobbying for new HSR.

 

[kEiThZ]

You make a valid point, but I think it’s being expressed a bit mean-spiritedly. Those in remoter regions cannot expect transportation to have the form or convenience that is possible in more densely populated areas, I agree. But ”like it or move” is a bit arbitrary. As a very large country, we need to be very concerned about encouraging development in the hinterland (assuming, of course, that there are resource or other industries out there to make that investment sustainable).

To what end?

We're at the point where major infrastructure doesn't get built, because our system of government is sufficiently biased to rural and suburban voters to ensure perpetual mediocrity on anything to do with urban centres. Why don't we have High Speed Rail between Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal? Exactly because it's those three cities that benefit and that drives the rest of the province and country up the wall.

Public transportation decisions aren't guided by fandom. To that end Urban Sky is right, if rail service is high on your priority list, move. Because chances are subsidizing rail services to that extent will never be politically supportable in Canada. Much as we wish we could be like Norway, we're not.

And with Covid turning budgets everywhere into Swiss Cheese, we'll be lucky to keep the services we have. The fiscal conservatives are already pushing for cuts everywhere.

 

[crs1026]

To what end?

We're at the point where major infrastructure doesn't get built, because our system of government is sufficiently biased to rural and suburban voters to ensure perpetual mediocrity on anything to do with urban centres. Why don't we have High Speed Rail between Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal? Exactly because it's those three cities that benefit and that drives the rest of the province and country up the wall.

Public transportation decisions aren't guided by fandom. To that end Urban Sky is right, if rail service is high on your priority list, move. Because chances are subsidizing rail services to that extent will never be politically supportable in Canada. Much as we wish we could be like Norway, we're not.

And with Covid turning budgets everywhere into Swiss Cheese, we'll be lucky to keep the services we have. The fiscal conservatives are already pushing for cuts everywhere.

I was not suggesting overkill, but one has to ask what the "right" level of investment might be. Current population of Northern Ontario is just under 800,000 people. That's enough to command some political voice. They are not all located on one rail line, certainly, but the population of greater SSM, Sudbury, Timmins, North Bay plus smaller towns along those two routes is roughly 400,000. That's enough to justify good transportation. As a market base, that would certainly represent some meaningful demand and some meaningful ridership adding to whatever VIA builds as its Southern Ontario backbone.... more than Windsor-Chatham which is a little over 300,000. As incremental ridership changing at Toronto for other destinations served by VIA, it's not trivial.

I don't have a crystal ball, and I don't have a clue what will happen post-pandemic. Anyone who says they know for sure probably isn't worth listening to. One does hear about some losing interest in a crowded, dense urban lifestyle. Somebody (maybe not VIA) needs to consider whether places other than T-O-M might support ridership. There may be a rebound.... as there was after WW II. Linking that second tier of communities might reach a threshold of viability. I'm not saying that it will, I'm saying it's worth looking objectively at what the thresholds might be.

- Paul

 

[kEiThZ]

They are not all located on one rail line, certainly, but the population of greater SSM, Sudbury, Timmins, North Bay plus smaller towns along those two routes is roughly 400,000. That's enough to justify good transportation. As a market base, that would certainly represent some meaningful demand and some meaningful ridership adding to whatever VIA builds as its Southern Ontario backbone.... more than Windsor-Chatham which is a little over 300,000.

You're comparing 400k over 500+km to 300k over 83 km, of which 80% is in Windsor, across from a metro of 5 million.

You're right that they deserve better public transport. But the case for rail service is incredibly poor. The only case I can see is some kind of regular rail service to North Bay, maybe supporting a bus hub there.

 

[micheal_can]

You're comparing 400k over 500+km to 300k over 83 km, of which 80% is in Windsor, across from a metro of 5 million.

You're right that they deserve better public transport. But the case for rail service is incredibly poor. The only case I can see is some kind of regular rail service to North Bay, maybe supporting a bus hub there.

I am guessing you know nothing about North Bay and their station. There are a major terminal for buses from Quebec, Autobus Maheux, currently suspended due to covid. (Temiskaming, and Abitibi area.) Their station has much more traffic than the So, that bus hub you speak of? It is already there and up to covid, was doing well.

 

[kEiThZ]

I am guessing you know nothing about North Bay and their station. There are a major terminal for buses from Quebec, Autobus Maheux, currently suspended due to covid. (Temiskaming, and Abitibi area.) Their station has much more traffic than the So, that bus hub you speak of? It is already there and up to covid, was doing well.

Did you miss the part about regular rail service to North Bay feeding that bus hub? Yes, I know there's a lot of bus traffic there.

 

[kEiThZ]

A good example of the opposite extreme to our discussions here is Spain. They can't stop building HSR, even though their HSR network keeps racking up losses, only adding to the debts of a country in a poor fiscal situation. On one hand a cautionary tale about overbuilding. On the other an example of simply getting something built starts the ball rolling on political support for further rail investment everywhere.

 

[micheal_can]

Did you miss the part about regular rail service to North Bay feeding that bus hub? Yes, I know there's a lot of bus traffic there.

The way you worded it made it sound like there isn't much there.

 

[Urban Sky]

I was not suggesting overkill, but one has to ask what the "right" level of investment might be. Current population of Northern Ontario is just under 800,000 people. That's enough to command some political voice. They are not all located on one rail line, certainly, but the population of greater SSM, Sudbury, Timmins, North Bay plus smaller towns along those two routes is roughly 400,000. That's enough to justify good transportation. As a market base, that would certainly represent some meaningful demand and some meaningful ridership adding to whatever VIA builds as its Southern Ontario backbone.... more than Windsor-Chatham which is a little over 300,000. As incremental ridership changing at Toronto for other destinations served by VIA, it's not trivial.

I don't have a crystal ball, and I don't have a clue what will happen post-pandemic. Anyone who says they know for sure probably isn't worth listening to. One does hear about some losing interest in a crowded, dense urban lifestyle. Somebody (maybe not VIA) needs to consider whether places other than T-O-M might support ridership. There may be a rebound.... as there was after WW II. Linking that second tier of communities might reach a threshold of viability. I'm not saying that it will, I'm saying it's worth looking objectively at what the thresholds might be.

- Paul

You're comparing 400k over 500+km to 300k over 83 km, of which 80% is in Windsor, across from a metro of 5 million.

You're right that they deserve better public transport. But the case for rail service is incredibly poor. The only case I can see is some kind of regular rail service to North Bay, maybe supporting a bus hub there.

I like the idea of restoring the Northlander south of North Bay (i.e. as a daily rail service out of Toronto), but I second @crs1026's subtle nod that this would (and should) not be a VIA service, which is why I responded in the Ontario Northland and the End of the Northlander thread instead...