VIA Rail

[crs1026]

I'm surprised people aren't more concerned about the prospect of a Conservative government. The federal party is very different to the provincial party. The last time the Conservatives formed a federal government, the consequences for VIA were horrific. Their answer to cutting subsidies was cutting service (which only caused the opposite).

Also remember that this is an eastern Canada project, so HFR would be a particular target to cut. They would probably shift the money for other projects, likely roads, oil and gas in western Canada.

The last time the Conservatives were in power, they spent $400M upgrading the Kingston Sub. Hardly “horrific”. The project was tainted, and may have soured the Cons in the short term, but VIA increased its frequency all the same. The Cons know that absent VIA there will be calls for funding for airports and/or highways. They will favour whatever costs least, and that may be rail.

The Liberals have the option of including the HFr project in their election platform, or not. If they don’t, the question becomes how they justify continuing the JPO expense. They may dither, but they will have trouble saying NO firmly.

For the Cons, they too have a choice. If they oppose HFR, do they call for immediate cessation of JPR work ? If they let the JPO continue, they paint themselves into a corner when the reports are released.

For both parties, a JPO finding of no net loss is probably all they need to get behind HFR. If it can run in the black, it’s defensible to either constituency.

I am not worried by either set of tea leaves. The slow pace is frustrating, but there is no big iceberg out there. We just wait.

- Paul

 

[TRONto]

Great video. It's sad to see how poorly rail service has evolved.

 

[micheal_can]

Great video. It's sad to see how poorly rail service has evolved.

What is sadder is when people try to argue that it is good service and we should be happy we have any. Just imagine if they gutted the Corridor like this?

 

[Allandale25]

Latest from a February 17th article, by the VIA CEO.

Bringing VIA Rail to the next level: New fleet and new railway

Cynthia Garneau of VIA Rail Canada, details the ambition behind restoring the critical role of passenger rail in Canada.

www.globalrailwayreview.com

HFR specific quote (emphasis added)

Finally, our modernisation programme would not be whole without our flagship project: High Frequency Rail (HFR), a large-scale and environmentally friendly endeavour which consists of upgrading and building new tracks dedicated to passenger trains between Québec City and Toronto. This will allow to connect more – and new – communities together, provide more departures, improve on-time performance and reduce trip times. Furthermore, HFR will have a substantial economic impact and will also significantly contribute to the reduction of road congestion and, thus, greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions. We are hopeful of receiving a favourable response from the Federal Government soon in order to move ahead with the project.

Undoubtedly, these large-scale initiatives centred around the needs of customers are another step to restoring the critical role of passenger rail service in Canada.

 

[Urban Sky]

What is sadder is when people try to argue that it is good service and we should be happy we have any. Just imagine if they gutted the Corridor like this?

Never let facts get in the way of a compelling story, but there are at least 8 abandoned routes in the Quebec-Windsor Corridor which still existed when VIA took over operations from CN and CP, as testified by VIA's October 1976 schedule:

Route	Service in October 1976 (frequencies per week)
Quebec - Trois-Rivières - Montreal	20
Quebec - Victoriaville - Richmond	5
Coaticook - Sherbrooke - Richmond - Montreal	7 (Coaticook - Sherbrooke: 1)
Sherbrooke - Farnham - Montreal	7 (Farnham - Montreal: 12)
Montreal - Rigaud - Ottawa	7
Montreal - Montebello - Ottawa	7 (westbound: 8)
Havelock - Peterborough - Toronto	7
Toronto - Welland - Buffalo	7

Furthermore, these routes have lost at least half their scheduled service since 1976:

Route	Service in October 1976 (freq/week)	Service in 2019 (freq/week)
Toronto - Niagara Falls	21	7
Toronto - Kitchener - London	34 (Stratford - London: 27)	14
Toronto - Brantford - London	64	33*
(Toronto -) London - Sarnia	28	7

* Not exactly a reduction by one half, but a decrease by 48% nonetheless...

 

[nfitz]

Never let facts get in the way of a compelling story, but there are at least 8 abandoned routes in the Quebec-Windsor Corridor which still existed when VIA took over operations from CN and CP, as testified by VIA's October 1976 schedule:.

There's also some local and commuter services in the corridor that also got cut. I'm not sure some of these got transferred to VIA when it became a separate company in 1977. Toronto-Barrie (which GO Transit took over, but service wasn't permanently restored to downtown Barrie in 2012, and suburban Barrie in 2007. Toronto-Stouffville (went to GO), Richmond - Quebec City, Malabie to Quebec City, Montreal to Mont-Laurier through St- Agathe. And the bizarre cut of the train station in downton Hamilton on the Niagara Falls service - which GO Transit finally reopened in 2015 (though VIA trains still don't stop there).

I seem to recall something else other than St-Hilare and Deux-Montagnes on the CN board at Central station in the early 1980s. The one to the right of the VIA board on the south wall. But perhaps my memory is tricking me.

Edit - thinking more ... the other thing must have been the CN service to Cartierville, which like the St-Hilare service VIA never took over. Did VIA take over the Farnham line - I seldom went to Windsor Station - which always seemed a bit sad back then.

 

[roger1818]

What is sadder is when people try to argue that it is good service and we should be happy we have any. Just imagine if they gutted the Corridor like this?

The king of strawman arguments holds his crown. Name one person who says that it is "good service." It is easy to debate against arguments that you pretend other people are making.

 

[Bordercollie]

I dont see the conservatives winning the next election.

But i dont see them supporting so much spending since they are a more "fiscally responsible" party.

 

[roger1818]

But i dont see them supporting so much spending since they are a more "fiscally responsible" party.

I agree that in general they are fiscally conservative; however, they do like their infrastructure projects under the "Canada's Economic Action Plan" banner (IIRC, the Harper government coined the term).


Image courtesy The Star

 

[TRONto]

What is sadder is when people try to argue that it is good service and we should be happy we have any. Just imagine if they gutted the Corridor like this?

There was a lot of service when VIA took over around 1978. Imagine what it would be like if those services had been continued and upgraded since then. There was so much service!

 

[p_xavier]

The Feds are such hypocrites when it comes to rail transportation.

 

[robmausser]

There was a lot of service when VIA took over around 1978. Imagine what it would be like if those services had been continued and upgraded since then. There was so much service!

Heres my opinion on the matter. And I know it will be unpopular around here. Plus, note I am a train nerd and love trains.

Most of those routes, are better served by buses. Some like the Churchill route still exist because there are no roads, but there is little gained in these low density areas that a train will bring over a frequent bus route.

The exception is the Canadian having a more southerly route through Calgary etc. The Canadian should move back to its original route, with a high speed train between Calgary and Edmonton, and perhaps a branch that comes off of the Canadian Winnipeg to Edmonton as well.

That being said bus services in Canada have been gutted as well, but I really don't see the advantages of rail in these tiny bedroom communities that the old lines served.

 

[Xav]

I totally agree with you. We need an actual publicly owned system that links smaller regional nodes to bigger centres and train service. I'm sure such a system would build traffic to warrant more regional focused train lines in the future.

 

[SFO-YYZ]

The last time the Conservatives were in power, they spent $400M upgrading the Kingston Sub. Hardly “horrific”. The project was tainted, and may have soured the Cons in the short term, but VIA increased its frequency all the same. The Cons know that absent VIA there will be calls for funding for airports and/or highways. They will favour whatever costs least, and that may be rail.

The Liberals have the option of including the HFr project in their election platform, or not. If they don’t, the question becomes how they justify continuing the JPO expense. They may dither, but they will have trouble saying NO firmly.

For the Cons, they too have a choice. If they oppose HFR, do they call for immediate cessation of JPR work ? If they let the JPO continue, they paint themselves into a corner when the reports are released.

For both parties, a JPO finding of no net loss is probably all they need to get behind HFR. If it can run in the black, it’s defensible to either constituency.

I am not worried by either set of tea leaves. The slow pace is frustrating, but there is no big iceberg out there. We just wait.

- Paul

Exactly, people are jumping the gun here with rampant speculations about the election, the conservatives, and a bunch of what-if scenarios based on their personal perceptions of "what would XYZ party would do".

Relax, get a drink, and have some patience.

 

[Fritter]

Relax, get a drink, and have some patience.

Everyone to the Panorama Lounge!