VIA Rail

[2transpo]

Also, it's not like the Federal Liberals have done a ton for VIA Rail during the last 5 years or the 13+ years they were in power prior to that. In many ways, two sides of the same coin, take your pick.

You're not wrong, but I see it a bit differently. The choice is between the current government, which hasn't been supportive enough of VIA but hasn't done it much harm, and the Conservatives, which have done monumental damage to VIA and have played the largest role in making it the animated corpse we know today.

Also, the choice is between a party that has humoured HFR but has not been supportive enough, and a party that is virtually guaranteed to cancel the project.

The election is the biggest threat to HFR and is the reason it is unlikely to be built especially since he Conservatives have a strong chance of coming from behind and winning it.

If the Conservatives form the next government, I would be willing to bet $1000 that HFR is cancelled.

 

[ssiguy2]

I don't think HFR will get much federal attention because it doesn't get any attention from most people including in the Corridor and most of that is completely due to VIA itself.

Higher frequency rail, to most people, just means more frequent slow boats to China and that isn't enough to sway anybody. If VIA was to make it clear that it's HFR project not only makes the trains run by more frequently but also do so on time and will ,at least, result in 30% faster travel times then people would get excited and hence the political pressure would be there to force the Liberals to act. This is very similar to RER. The OL is a new project but gets far more attention than RER which is potentially far more transformative project than the OL but gets no respect. This is because ML has stated just 15 minute service even though it will be much higher during the weekdays than 11:30 PM on a Sunday night and also they haven't mentioned a damn thing about fares so most just see it as more frequent trains that they can't afford to take.

HFR is far too nebulous a concept to get the public behind it and VIA must make it clear just how much more reliable it will be and how much faster. When a government commits to billion of dollars in funding for a particular project people want to know what exactly is in it for them and at this point VIA has done a horrible job of conveying that message to the general public.

 

[Allandale25]

 

[MisterF]

And probably a cheaper way to establish all day service to Peterborough than trying to force a Go-Line there, a perennial Conservative promise.

I wouldn't say that bringing GO trains to Peterborough is a perennial Conservative promise. Back in the 90s it was the Liberals making that promise and I don't recall any Conservative leaders doing the same since, although I could be wrong. It's a classic bellweather riding so it gets promises from all parties. True to form, the current Peterborough MP is a Liberal and the MPP is a Conservative.

 

[Northern Light]

I wouldn't say that bringing GO trains to Peterborough is a perennial Conservative promise. Back in the 90s it was the Liberals making that promise and I don't recall any Conservative leaders doing the same since, although I could be wrong. It's a classic bellweather riding so it gets promises from all parties. True to form, the current Peterborough MP is a Liberal and the MPP is a Conservative.

I don't know about GO either; but former Conservative MP Dean Del Maestro regularly trumpeted the idea of restoring a Toronto-Ptbo rail connection.

From Wikipedia:

Link here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Del_Mastro

 

[MisterF]

I don't know about GO either; but former Conservative MP Dean Del Maestro regularly trumpeted the idea of restoring a Toronto-Ptbo rail connection.

From Wikipedia:

View attachment 300509

Link here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Del_Mastro

Yes you're right, I was thinking provincially so I forgot all about that proposal. So the promise has been made by both parties.

 

[2transpo]

When HFR gets officially cancelled, I think that will put the dream of passenger rail in Peterborough to rest. HFR is the only realistic way to get rail service there, and with all the political pitfalls on the horizon, it isn't likely to happen.

 

[Darwinkgo]

All the pessimism on here. I think unless the JPO study shows a huge environmental or Indigenous rights problem, or the cost estimate comes back at way more than $1 billion capital subsidy wise, I think no matter who is in government that the project goes forward. It is a project that the federal government has sole control over, making it far easier to get things moving than federal funds needing to flow through other levels of government.

Still a chance the JPO comes back at 0 subsidy.

 

[crs1026]

I'm surprised people aren't more concerned about the prospect of a Conservative government. The federal party is very different to the provincial party. The last time the Conservatives formed a federal government, the consequences for VIA were horrific. Their answer to cutting subsidies was cutting service (which only caused the opposite).

Also remember that this is an eastern Canada project, so HFR would be a particular target to cut. They would probably shift the money for other projects, likely roads, oil and gas in western Canada.

The last time the Conservatives were in power, they spent $400M upgrading the Kingston Sub. Hardly “horrific”. The project was tainted, and may have soured the Cons in the short term, but VIA increased its frequency all the same. The Cons know that absent VIA there will be calls for funding for airports and/or highways. They will favour whatever costs least, and that may be rail.

The Liberals have the option of including the HFr project in their election platform, or not. If they don’t, the question becomes how they justify continuing the JPO expense. They may dither, but they will have trouble saying NO firmly.

For the Cons, they too have a choice. If they oppose HFR, do they call for immediate cessation of JPR work ? If they let the JPO continue, they paint themselves into a corner when the reports are released.

For both parties, a JPO finding of no net loss is probably all they need to get behind HFR. If it can run in the black, it’s defensible to either constituency.

I am not worried by either set of tea leaves. The slow pace is frustrating, but there is no big iceberg out there. We just wait.

- Paul

 

[TRONto]

Great video. It's sad to see how poorly rail service has evolved.

 

[micheal_can]

Great video. It's sad to see how poorly rail service has evolved.

What is sadder is when people try to argue that it is good service and we should be happy we have any. Just imagine if they gutted the Corridor like this?

 

[Allandale25]

Latest from a February 17th article, by the VIA CEO.

Bringing VIA Rail to the next level: New fleet and new railway

Cynthia Garneau of VIA Rail Canada, details the ambition behind restoring the critical role of passenger rail in Canada.

www.globalrailwayreview.com

HFR specific quote (emphasis added)

Finally, our modernisation programme would not be whole without our flagship project: High Frequency Rail (HFR), a large-scale and environmentally friendly endeavour which consists of upgrading and building new tracks dedicated to passenger trains between Québec City and Toronto. This will allow to connect more – and new – communities together, provide more departures, improve on-time performance and reduce trip times. Furthermore, HFR will have a substantial economic impact and will also significantly contribute to the reduction of road congestion and, thus, greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions. We are hopeful of receiving a favourable response from the Federal Government soon in order to move ahead with the project.

Undoubtedly, these large-scale initiatives centred around the needs of customers are another step to restoring the critical role of passenger rail service in Canada.

 

[Urban Sky]

What is sadder is when people try to argue that it is good service and we should be happy we have any. Just imagine if they gutted the Corridor like this?

Never let facts get in the way of a compelling story, but there are at least 8 abandoned routes in the Quebec-Windsor Corridor which still existed when VIA took over operations from CN and CP, as testified by VIA's October 1976 schedule:

Route	Service in October 1976 (frequencies per week)
Quebec - Trois-Rivières - Montreal	20
Quebec - Victoriaville - Richmond	5
Coaticook - Sherbrooke - Richmond - Montreal	7 (Coaticook - Sherbrooke: 1)
Sherbrooke - Farnham - Montreal	7 (Farnham - Montreal: 12)
Montreal - Rigaud - Ottawa	7
Montreal - Montebello - Ottawa	7 (westbound: 8)
Havelock - Peterborough - Toronto	7
Toronto - Welland - Buffalo	7

Furthermore, these routes have lost at least half their scheduled service since 1976:

Route	Service in October 1976 (freq/week)	Service in 2019 (freq/week)
Toronto - Niagara Falls	21	7
Toronto - Kitchener - London	34 (Stratford - London: 27)	14
Toronto - Brantford - London	64	33*
(Toronto -) London - Sarnia	28	7

* Not exactly a reduction by one half, but a decrease by 48% nonetheless...

 

[nfitz]

Never let facts get in the way of a compelling story, but there are at least 8 abandoned routes in the Quebec-Windsor Corridor which still existed when VIA took over operations from CN and CP, as testified by VIA's October 1976 schedule:.

There's also some local and commuter services in the corridor that also got cut. I'm not sure some of these got transferred to VIA when it became a separate company in 1977. Toronto-Barrie (which GO Transit took over, but service wasn't permanently restored to downtown Barrie in 2012, and suburban Barrie in 2007. Toronto-Stouffville (went to GO), Richmond - Quebec City, Malabie to Quebec City, Montreal to Mont-Laurier through St- Agathe. And the bizarre cut of the train station in downton Hamilton on the Niagara Falls service - which GO Transit finally reopened in 2015 (though VIA trains still don't stop there).

I seem to recall something else other than St-Hilare and Deux-Montagnes on the CN board at Central station in the early 1980s. The one to the right of the VIA board on the south wall. But perhaps my memory is tricking me.

Edit - thinking more ... the other thing must have been the CN service to Cartierville, which like the St-Hilare service VIA never took over. Did VIA take over the Farnham line - I seldom went to Windsor Station - which always seemed a bit sad back then.

 

[roger1818]

What is sadder is when people try to argue that it is good service and we should be happy we have any. Just imagine if they gutted the Corridor like this?

The king of strawman arguments holds his crown. Name one person who says that it is "good service." It is easy to debate against arguments that you pretend other people are making.