News   Apr 02, 2026
 55     0 
News   Apr 01, 2026
 341     0 
News   Apr 01, 2026
 530     0 

VIA Rail

^While I hate to see VIA taking the long way round, I’m pretty much resigned to seeing that happen. I can’t see the value in messing up the flow of a pretty important transit line to accommodate VIA.

What can be done is to rearrange trackage, install signalling, and improve turnouts so that VIA can negotiate the stretch across the top of the city and through the freight yards much faster. This is an example of where, without expropriating or unfairly tying the freight railroads’ hands behind their back, Ottawa should be giving VIA strong legal levers to enforce cooperation. With Via paying for the upgrades, of course.

I’m also convinced that a stop that connects with REM in the north might actually be a big marketing plus - many travellers are not headed downtown and such a stop might actually shorten their overall trip time. Many others may not care where they transfer to REM, either. I even wonder about trains that turn west instead of east and terminate at Dorval, or just carry on westwards.

It’s not my dream solution, but one has to overcome one’s initial paradigm sometimes. I’m saving my dreams for Phase II, when one might propose a new HSR bore under the Mountain.

- Paul
 
^While I hate to see VIA taking the long way round, I’m pretty much resigned to seeing that happen. I can’t see the value in messing up the flow of a pretty important transit line to accommodate VIA.

What can be done is to rearrange trackage, install signalling, and improve turnouts so that VIA can negotiate the stretch across the top of the city and through the freight yards much faster. This is an example of where, without expropriating or unfairly tying the freight railroads’ hands behind their back, Ottawa should be giving VIA strong legal levers to enforce cooperation. With Via paying for the upgrades, of course.

I’m also convinced that a stop that connects with REM in the north might actually be a big marketing plus - many travellers are not headed downtown and such a stop might actually shorten their overall trip time. Many others may not care where they transfer to REM, either. I even wonder about trains that turn west instead of east and terminate at Dorval, or just carry on westwards.

It’s not my dream solution, but one has to overcome one’s initial paradigm sometimes. I’m saving my dreams for Phase II, when one might propose a new HSR bore under the Mountain.

Yeah I'm of a similar mind. I am very disappointed to see a new discontinuity built into the VIA network, but the ship has long since sailed given that the design of the REM correspondance station precludes trains from continuing on to Dorval or Centrale. Given the choice between serving the REM but not Centrale, or serving Centrale with a huge detour but not REM, the clear choice is to serve the REM.

My pipedream a second Deux Montagnes rail tunnel a bit further east, serving the Mascouche line, Saint-Jérome line, VIA Québec intercity, and/or VIA Jonquière/Senneterre services, shown below in pink.
Capture.JPG

This would resolve the discontinuities currently being introduced to the HFR, Jonquière/Senneterre, and Mascouche services, as well as the pre-existing detour on the Saint-Jérome Line. Plus the commuter rail services would become be a viable alternative to the eastern leg of the Orange Line, providing relief to the metro's most overcrowded segment.

Even in the most optimistic scenarios this would be decades down the road, but it would be a huge improvement to network connectivity, speed, and capacity.
 
Last edited:
Yeah I'm of a similar mind. I am very disappointed to see a new discontinuity built into the VIA network, but the ship has long since sailed given that the design of the REM correspondance station precludes trains from continuing on to Dorval or Centrale. Given the choice between serving the REM but not Centrale, or serving Centrale with a huge detour but not REM, the clear choice is to serve the REM.

My pipedream a second Deux Montagnes rail tunnel a bit further east, serving the Mascouche line, Saint-Jérome line, VIA Québec intercity, and/or VIA Jonquière/Senneterre services, shown below in pink.
View attachment 280549
This would resolve the discontinuities currently being introduced to the HFR, Jonquière/Senneterre, and Mascouche services, as well as the pre-existing detour on the Saint-Jérome Line. Plus the commuter rail services would become be a viable alternative to the eastern leg of the Orange Line, providing relief to the metro's most overcrowded segment.

Even in the most optimistic scenarios this would be decades down the road, but it would be a huge improvement to network connectivity, speed, and capacity.
This looks so much nicer of set up especially for EXO lines like the Mascouche and especially the St. Jerome lines.
 
My pipedream a second Deux Montagnes rail tunnel a bit further east, serving the Mascouche line, Saint-Jérome line, VIA Québec intercity, and/or VIA Jonquière/Senneterre services, shown below in pink.
....
Even in the most optimistic scenarios this would be decades down the road, but it would be a huge improvement to network connectivity, speed, and capacity.

This would certainly be an endgame fix for the regional rail network if combined with the doubling of the CN line from Anhuntsic to Terrebonne. The designs that I envisioned had included a new direct double track line from Gare Centrale to Gare Parc running parallel to the existing tunnel until past the McTavish reservoir before deviating to the east through a bored tunnel with an exit portal east of the track split near the new UdeM campus. The idea was that this would avoid expensive station construction while leaving underground space free for the future Pink line/Diagonal metro given that this line would be meant for regional and intercity trains. However, watching the McGill station REM construction makes this plan more challenging. They appear to have run into some geotechnical issues and have restarted the collection of core samples on the roads near the station box excavation. Furthermore, there does not seem to be any room to east of the existing station tubes to bore a tunnel at the same track elevation without running into building foundations and the new pedestrian tunnel under Maisonneuve that connects to the green line.
 
anything new on the new trainset front? Has Siemens started making the first set yet? IIRC they are supposed to begin testing next year.
 
This looks so much nicer of set up especially for EXO lines like the Mascouche and especially the St. Jerome lines.

Honestly looks really nice. Only big operation issue would be using the current trains at an underground Plateau station.
 
Last edited:
Honestly looks really nice. Only big operation issue would be using the trains at an underground Plateau station.

The station in Plateau is totally optional, it was just an idea to maybe attract some ridership away from the Orange Line from that busy neighbourhood. It can easily be omitted if construction proves to be particularly challenging.
 
anything new on the new trainset front? Has Siemens started making the first set yet? IIRC they are supposed to begin testing next year.

Besides the completion of the Calidot coach order (which will stretch out to about 2023 or so), Siemen's current priority is their 75-unit order for Amtrak ALC-42s. The first dozen or so are currently under construction, with the first one scheduled to be largely completed by the end of the year. Other than a couple of small orders for commuter agencies, VIA's locos should be the next on the line.

They have also recently finalized the design of the cab car and performed some testing on the individual components, and it sounds like the first one of those should be completed - unsure if it will be for VIA or the Calidot order - around the middle of next year.

Dan
 
The station in Plateau is totally optional, it was just an idea to maybe attract some ridership away from the Orange Line from that busy neighbourhood. It can easily be omitted if construction proves to be particularly challenging.

Just noticed a typo in my original response. I meant to say that the design would be awesome but I don't think that it would be easy to construct and underground station for the current diesel locomotive hauled sets of ten bilevel coaches. A station would be really nice but it runs into the same issues that served as some of the motivations for using metro EMUs for the REM.
 
Last edited:
Not sure of the quality or accuracy of the reporting of this website. But I came across an article on TrainsMagazine.com (Link attached) talking about the corporate business plan for VIA rail and the next 5 years.


A couple of the things that I thought were interesting/concerning.

- Via wants to increase its budget from 148 million to 300 million. I don't think I truly realized how shoestring of a budget that is to try and operate a rail network for a country as large as we are geographically. I understand that they get revenue from their ticket sales, ads, etc but I hope they see the increased government funding.
- The Canadian won't see the third run return because of the actions of host rail networks. Is this a matter of saying to CN/CN; build us some more rail capacity here so we can make this work for both parties? or is Via a burden to their business models that they want off their networks as much as possible (hence HFR proposal)?
- They would like an additional 110 million (I'm assuming to bring the total to ask to $410 million). Would this be for infrastructure deficits they have/projects (redoing the Budd cars) or is this more to cover their budget after the horrid year they have had because of Covid?
- They talk about needing to look into the replacement of these units as part of the proposal for making these routes more viable. WIthout knowing anything about trainsets at all. Would a potential addition to the Charger order be viable if they can find the money or is rebuilding the better units coming off the Toronto - Montreal corridor the more likely option?
 
Not sure of the quality or accuracy of the reporting of this website. But I came across an article on TrainsMagazine.com (Link attached) talking about the corporate business plan for VIA rail and the next 5 years.

The article is a not bad precis of a Business Plan document on VIA's web site, so it's based on straight goods. The source document is well written and presents a very candid view of VIA's situation. I would suggest the source document is the better one to work from.

- Via wants to increase its budget from 148 million to 300 million. I don't think I truly realized how shoestring of a budget that is to try and operate a rail network for a country as large as we are geographically. I understand that they get revenue from their ticket sales, ads, etc but I hope they see the increased government funding.

There are actually two components to this. One is covering VIA's costs. The other is firewalling VIA's cash flow from the ridiculously apathetic government processes, which refuse to process VIA's business plans in time for an annual fiscal cycle. When it takes two years to approve an annual Business Plan, you know the government couldn't care less about VIA. This is such an egregious bit of not attending to basic chores, I'm disgusted in our current government, even more than its foot dragging on HFR.

But yeah, in the big scheme this is a trivial amount of money to be nickel and diming over. We need better.

The Canadian won't see the third run return because of the actions of host rail networks. Is this a matter of saying to CN/CN; build us some more rail capacity here so we can make this work for both parties? or is Via a burden to their business models that they want off their networks as much as possible (hence HFR proposal)?

Via is very much a burden in CN's eyes. While CN is adding track capacity in Western Canada, they will probably never be in a surplus capacity situation, as it's all private capital so investment is carefully ratoned. The cost of adding further capacity to let VIA stay ahead of growth in freight traffic is huge. And why would the government pay for capacity that will inevitably be usurped by CN for its own needs? VIA would have to paddle faster just to stand still. I'm pleased to see VIA has taken the courageous route by plainly stating that the business model for the Canadian just isn't sustainable (Section 3.6.1)

I am pleased to see VIA bravely laying out just how constraining its relationship with CN and CP is. They are plainly arguing for government to change national transportation policy. I'm not optimistic, but it shows a lot more integrity than just cow-towing to the pols and bureaucrats.

One interesting new item in the document is the outline of the challenge of working with REM and with Metrolinx to retain terminal capacity in both Montreal and Toronto. I recently overheard a VIA guy remark that "Metrolinx treats VIA like a trespasser". To be a bit less partisan, Metrolinx has capacity issues both at Union and on its LSE/LSW lines. VIA can't take its use of these lines for granted, and it certainly seems logical that VIA ought to be assessed a share of the capital expension costs (just like with CN in Western Canada) if it proposes to expand its use of these resources.

- They would like an additional 110 million (I'm assuming to bring the total to ask to $410 million). Would this be for infrastructure deficits they have/projects (redoing the Budd cars) or is this more to cover their budget after the horrid year they have had because of Covid?

It's hard to tell exactly where the money is going, but there are some nuggets in the article.
- It sounds like the base operating envelope just wasn't enough in the first place, and COVID no doubt has strained that further
- VIA is projecting its non-manageable costs will grow faster than revenue or inflation (section 4.1)
- It sounds like VIA will have to pay for enhanced crossing protection requirements where they use CN lines, likely as a result of government regulation
- Stations are aging and need work

So no, this increase is not about additional equipment refurbishment. If anything, refurb is being cut back, in part because of recent mysterious discoveries about how bad the equipment condition may be.

- They talk about needing to look into the replacement of these units as part of the proposal for making these routes more viable. WIthout knowing anything about trainsets at all. Would a potential addition to the Charger order be viable if they can find the money or is rebuilding the better units coming off the Toronto - Montreal corridor the more likely option?

Only part of their existing fleet can be further life extended. The source article notes that the base Charger order is expected to arrive ahead of schedule, reducing the need to refurbish long-distance equipment that is "loaned" to the Corridor service to augment capacity.

VIA has options to acquire additional Chargers if it can find the justification. The highest priority growth opportunity pointed to (also a new nugget) is Toronto-Kitchener-London. I'm really happy to see that highlighted. It's possible that VIA could meet some of that by running its base Charger equipment through Toronto, but obviously, at some point they might need more trains, and their options enable that.

My typically verbose response!

- Paul
 
Last edited:
I'm assuming they're including bus operations in their analysis, but this quote still stood out to me considering the Toronto - Kitchener segment had something like eight round trips by GO train pre-pandemic whereas Toronto - Niagara had one.

Regardless, as a Kitchener resident who prefers VIA over GO, this is welcome news. Looking forward to seeing how this plays out given the many constraints on the north mainline.

I haven’t heard an update lately on the KW line. There has been work going on to improve the yard trackage and crossovers at Kitchener, to make operations there smoother....but nothing about completing the passing sidings east of there.While Ml has certainly upped peak service, until the line can handle all-day counter flow movements, it won’t be wide open for VIA.
I imagine that VIA’s intention is not so much competing with GO for Toronto-Kitchener riders as with adding the K-W-L population base to the reach of HFR for trips to places east of Toronto. That will sell seats on the core HFR line. Sure, people can use GO to get to VIA in Toronto, but a seamless journey always beats a transfer.
As for Niagara.....when ML is having to build its own trackage to use that route, don’t expect VIA to be welcomed onto CN. I do wonder if we will maybe see more focus on VIA service to Hamilton, for the same reason as KW.......a more seamless trip to points east.

- Paul
 
Last edited:

Back
Top