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VIA Rail

I stumbled across this webpage one time I was looking for something else. And today when I was looking for it again to link it here, I really had to dig to find it. Actually, I never did find it by navigating through the site. I eventually gave up and Google-searched VIA's website for the term "Commuter e-pass". Certainly not a highly-promoted product.
Incredible digging! Whoa...I didn't mean to doubt your word, just having it in print allows one to reference it to others. I'm still digesting this...I wish I'd known about this last year. And I'm sure others would too. Now I know why people choose VIA over GO! It's a no-brainer, schedule time besides.

It's funny how if you travel from Toronto to Kitchener in a yellow train you have to pay sales tax, but if you take a green train you don't.
There's got to be a story behind that alone.
Between 12-19 trips per month, the cheapest way to ride VIA is to buy a 20-pack and not use all of them.
Is your name on all of the tickets? Could they be used by someone else on those other days?

I stumbled across this webpage one time I was looking for something else. And today when I was looking for it again to link it here, I really had to dig to find it. Actually, I never did find it by navigating through the site. I eventually gave up and Google-searched VIA's website for the term "Commuter e-pass". Certainly not a highly-promoted product.
Google is a lot better on many sites compared to their on-site search, especially with org websites.

I had to do exactly that on the Greyhound website the other day, it is so absent the most basic navigation. Ditto Ontario Northland and even GO's website. Even newspapers to search for a story you read a day or so back and now need to quote it.

It's actually a testament to how incredibly good Google is for searching.
 
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I'm unaware of a general railway issue string, so will post this here, it's relevant to the PTC discussion:

RE: The CP derailment mid-town Toronto in August:
'A failure in the system': How 2 trains derailed in midtown Toronto
Timing of when stop signal seen to be a primary focus of the investigation, TSB says
[...]
Under investigation now: The condition of the track infrastructure, crew training, potential crew fatigue, issues with following signal indications and potential crew distraction. But Johnston says one of the most critical questions is what role the absence of a fail-safe physical defence to prevent train collisions may have played in the crash.

"Really what we have here is a failure in the system itself. What gaps existed in the system that allowed this type of accident to happen?" Johnston said, pointing to past derailments including one in Burlington, Ont., in 2012 that left three Via Rail employees dead.

"In that investigation, the board recommended that Transport Canada require major Canadian passenger and freight railways [to] implement physical fail-safe train controls beginning with Canada's high-speed rail corridors," he said. [...]
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...-trains-derailed-in-midtown-toronto-1.3731312
 
Incredible digging! Whoa...I didn't mean to doubt your word, just having it in print allows one to reference it to others. I'm still digesting this...I wish I'd known about this last year. And I'm sure others would too. Now I know why people choose VIA over GO! It's a no-brainer, schedule time besides.

Rumour has it that the new Stratford-Toronto DMU service (starting "early 2016"?!) would add trips in the peak commuting periods for Toronto workers. Combined with the existing westbound departure at 17:40 and the considerable speed advantage over GO, VIA would be such an attractive option for commuting every seat in the peak-period trains could be filled by Kitchener-Toronto commuters alone.

Maybe that's the issue. The commuter pass is such a good deal that if everyone knew about it, there would more people wanting to take the train than would fit. So people in the know end up getting a really good deal and everyone else gets a really bad deal.

That is actually pretty consistent with my experience with VIA. You can get a good deal sometimes if you really pay attention, but usually it's quite expensive.

The most extreme example I've experienced was when my ticket to Montreal cost $25 including tax, but the way back to Toronto a week later cost something like $180. The cheap ticket was a result of a half-off sale, but the expensive ticket was due to all the cheap tickets being sold out (perhaps due to said half-off sale).

<rant>

I can understand that it's in VIA's best interest to use demand-based pricing where tickets get more expensive based on how full the train is - thereby encouraging people to buy seats on less-full trains. But from what I've seen, the price difference between different trains on the same day is fairly small. I'm guessing is that it only takes a few dollars difference to sway people onto the less-used departures. So all the extreme price gradient is accomplishing is to make it unaffordable to take VIA on short notice - thereby making it less attractive and giving it a reputation of being more expensive than it actually is if you learn how to get the cheap tickets.

Case in point, the CBC article I linked at the start of this post includes the line:
"The economy fare [from Stratford to Toronto] ranges from $60 for the morning train and $52 for the night train".
Well no, actually the price varies wildly based on a bunch of factors. It just happened to be $60 and $52 on the particular day the CBC writer checked the website. I just checked the website for a random day a couple months from now, and it gave me a price of $33.90 including tax for both departures. I could not count the times that someone has told me that VIA is ridiculously expensive because they checked one time and a trip to Montreal was "like $180". Based on this one sample, they decide that VIA is unreasonably expensive and as a result they don't consider it the next time they plan a trip.

Also, what's up with promotions like Discount Tuesday? If Tuesday is a low-travel day, then I could understand putting the Tuesday trains on sale to boost ridership. But instead it's just based on when you made the booking - all trains are cheaper when you book on Tuesday. Sometimes I feel like VIA's fares are determined by some marketing person who's just trying to keep themself entertained with sales and promotions.

</rant>

There's got to be a story behind that alone.

Not a very long story. GO Transit is classified as "public transit", so it's exempt from sales tax and you can also claim it for the public transit tax deduction on your income tax. VIA is just classified as intercity transport like an airline so it doesn't get any tax benefits.

Is your name on all of the tickets? Could they be used by someone else on those other days?

From the VIA webpage linked above (emphasis added):
  • The 20 one-way trip Commuter ePass can be purchased at any time, even up to 6 months in advance.
  • ePass credits issued are non-transferable. Only the passenger named on the ePass may use the credit.
  • A valid booking and ticket are required for travel. Standees are not permitted.
  • Upon request, the passenger must present ID matching the name printed on the ticket issued with a Commuter ePass.
  • Each travel credit is valid for a one-way trip on any VIA Rail train* (Unless specified otherwise on your Commuter ePasses) in Economy class in either direction between the two cities shown on the ePass or points in between.
  • ePass credits will only be accepted within the 30-day validity period indicated on the ePass confirmation/receipt. The 20 one-way trip Commuter ePass is valid for a 30-day period, starting on the date determined by the customer at time of purchase.
  • Passengers not in possession of a valid ticket using an ePass credit as described above will be required to purchase a ticket at the applicable fare on board the train.
  • A valid rail ticket issued using the ePass credit is required.
  • The Commuter ePass is refundable if it has not expired, if no trips have been made using it, and if no tickets booked with it have been cancelled after the applicable train's scheduled departure. There is a service charge of $50 plus taxes for a refund. Once it has been used, a pass cannot be refunded.
*Unless specified otherwise on your Commuter ePasses.
 
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I'm unaware of a general railway issue string, so will post this here, it's relevant to the PTC discussion:

RE: The CP derailment mid-town Toronto in August:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...-trains-derailed-in-midtown-toronto-1.3731312

In the absence of the final investigation report, this topic continues to be speculative. Nevertheless, the argument that 'the crew didn't see the signal until the last minute' is a bit flimsy considering that a) that particular signal was erected around 1955, therefore something all crews would be expected to have anticipated and b)the preceding signal would, if operating properly, have displayed an indication requiring the crew to be prepared to stop at the next signal.

The article seems to be a rehash bolting a PTC solution on to a problem, but it doesn't add any new information. We know PTC does reduce the potential for human error, but we still haven't officially been told this accident was caused by such an error.

- Paul
 
Incredible digging! Whoa...I didn't mean to doubt your word, just having it in print allows one to reference it to others. I'm still digesting this...I wish I'd known about this last year. And I'm sure others would too. Now I know why people choose VIA over GO! It's a no-brainer, schedule time besides.


There's got to be a story behind that alone.
Is your name on all of the tickets? Could they be used by someone else on those other days?

Google is a lot better on many sites compared to their on-site search, especially with org websites.

I had to do exactly that on the Greyhound website the other day, it is so absent the most basic navigation. Ditto Ontario Northland and even GO's website. Even newspapers to search for a story you read a day or so back and now need to quote it.

It's actually a testament to how incredibly good Google is for searching.

As someone who used to use the commuter railpass, there are some caveats, mostly, that VIA operates like a regional transit system, and not a commuter one.

The most important, is that you pay in advance for the pass, but you don't get a ticket for any days, and you are not guaranteed a seat. Standing is not allowed. You MUST have an assigned seat to be on a Via train, and if you don't you will be kicked off at the next station.

So, while you pay in advance for the commuter pass, you still have to obtain all your tickets for each day separately, which assigns you a seat. And you cannot acquire them that far in advance, like with a normal payment. I think its like 3 days at most.

Its not only a pain to have to buy all the tickets for every day, but sometimes they are sold out, and you are #^#& out of luck.
 
There is an interesting rail situation in Quebec that brothers me.

VIA Rail's city centre station, Palais (Gare de Palais), is located at a very good location near the old city. But there is another rail operator, the Train de Charlevoix (http://reseaucharlevoix.com/english) that runs along the north shore of the St Lawrence to Baie Ste Paul. The problem however is that instead of terminating at Palais Station, the train ends at Montmorency Falls, a 20 minute drive (north east) from Palais.

Yes, the Train de Charlevoix is a private tourist railway, but it provides direct access (literally) to the Le Massif (there is a chair lift connected to the Grande Pointe Station: http://openbuildings.com/buildings/...in-station-profile-44323?_show_description=1#). The train continues east to Baie Saint Paul and connects to hotels.

If the Train de Charlevoix is going to appeal to travellers coming to Quebec by train, then VIA (who I assume owns Palais Station) should be allowing the Train de Charlevoix to terminate at Palais. If timed correctly, travellers from Montreal (and further west) could enjoy a seamless transition to Le Massif without driving. Add high speed rail to the mix and you have potential weekend escape for travellers from Ontario.
 
There is an interesting rail situation in Quebec that brothers me.

VIA Rail's city centre station, Palais (Gare de Palais), is located at a very good location near the old city. But there is another rail operator, the Train de Charlevoix (http://reseaucharlevoix.com/english) that runs along the north shore of the St Lawrence to Baie Ste Paul. The problem however is that instead of terminating at Palais Station, the train ends at Montmorency Falls, a 20 minute drive (north east) from Palais.

Yes, the Train de Charlevoix is a private tourist railway, but it provides direct access (literally) to the Le Massif (there is a chair lift connected to the Grande Pointe Station: http://openbuildings.com/buildings/...in-station-profile-44323?_show_description=1#). The train continues east to Baie Saint Paul and connects to hotels.

If the Train de Charlevoix is going to appeal to travellers coming to Quebec by train, then VIA (who I assume owns Palais Station) should be allowing the Train de Charlevoix to terminate at Palais. If timed correctly, travellers from Montreal (and further west) could enjoy a seamless transition to Le Massif without driving. Add high speed rail to the mix and you have potential weekend escape for travellers from Ontario.

I know it's not ideal but there is a bus from Place Jacques Cartier to Montmorency (#53). About a 15 minute walk from the train station. Or a cab ride.

I suspect that there are industrial areas that would create issues with running on time. Just like GO they want to manage their own destiny.

But right now I agree there is a problem. Why would I pay $50 cab ride to get on a train? Why not just rent a car for a few days while I go skiing. It is just a tourist train now but if they created a way to get to downtown and the airport it could replace the need for skiiers to get a car (and creating a captive audience at the ski hill for spending our money).
 
Are the Charlevoix DMUs cleared to operate over mainline track, or just under light rail rules on their own line? That might explain why it cannot access the VIA station.
 
This is in today's Star. Announcement by Federal Transport minister Marc Garneau. “Our government is also looking at the high-frequency rail service for travellers between Quebec City and Windsor,” Garneau said, offering no further details.
 
Going right to the source:
http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?mthd=index&crtr.page=1&nid=1146789

Which includes this wonderful phrase:
I can tell you that Canada has a world-class rail transportation system, but that does not mean it is perfect. It can be better.

I did not know our Transport Minister was an aspiring stand-up comedian.

(The context of that quote was actually freight rail, which I guess is pretty good. The freight companies have the run of the place)
 
And our passenger system is also world class. Third world.

Pretty true actually....hell even India and south Africa's railroads are better than ours...and let's not mention Europe....they're in a different century from Na
 
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Are the Charlevoix DMUs cleared to operate over mainline track, or just under light rail rules on their own line? That might explain why it cannot access the VIA station.

That would also explain how they're able to run German ex-DB Class 628 trains (still with european couplers!) and even though other agencies struggle to find european domestic market multiple units that will meet the North American crash regulations.

Class 628 in Québec:

Class 628 in its former paint scheme:
640px-Baureihe_628_in_lorsch_100_1938.jpg
 

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