VIA Rail

[reaperexpress]

Boarding doesn't start until 15 minutes before on 71. Yet people start standing in line long before. As long as people keep doing that, I doubt anything is going to change.

The people are just doing what VIA has told them to do. If VIA tells them to wait in the lounge until the platform is announced (i.e. what GO does) people will do that instead.

If VIA wants, it can still have staff on the platform to assist passengers (directions to particular coaches, physical assistance up steps, etc), while the 90% of people who don't need assistance can board in parallel at all doors of the train. Ideally VIA would be included into GO's departure boards (thence "Union Station's departure boards") so passengers entering from any part of the station can make their way directly to the platform once it is announced.

 

[crs1026]

In any event, I hope they move from the current model. I'd like to get to the point where I can tap my phone/Presto/Opus/ticket on a fare gate and get onto the platform and just walk on to the train. I think this should be service concept goal.

The wayfinding in depot, at gate and on the platform should guide you all the way to your car door. Plenty of operators have info screens that show you the consist of the train, which way it’s pointed (is Car 1 at the leading or trailing end? is Business Class on the front or rear?) and where each car door will stop. And all in real time, as opposed to the normal plan on paper but not necessarily the reality on that day.

I can (sort of) understand the need for controlled access to platforms in larger terminals, but making people stand in line is not appropriate and really impacts the user experience. VIA needs to see the opportunity especially in relation to the airport experience - which while dreadful at its worst, can actually be slicker at times.

- Paul

 

[reaperexpress]

The wayfinding in depot, at gate and on the platform should guide you all the way to your car door. Plenty of operators have info screens that show you the consist of the train, which way it’s pointed (is Car 1 at the leading or trailing end? is Business Class on the front or rear?) and where each car door will stop. And all in real time, as opposed to the normal plan on paper but not necessarily the reality on that day.

Further to this point, here was my experience boarding the ÖBB Nightjet sleeper train at Wien Hauptbahnhof (Vienna Central station) last week.

The train was listed on the departure screens along with everything else (all the way down to local S-Bahn trains). The train was already at the platform when I arrived, as indicated by a white dot on the left side of the screen. The different ends of the train are split up during the night and head to different destinations, so the train is listed twice, with an A-B suffix on the platform number to send Amsterdam-bound passengers toward the appropriate end of the platform.

On the platform itself there are screens showing the layout of the train (and the following 3 trains on the same platform) This is particularly important in this case since the car numbers are not necessarily in numerical order due to getting rearranged en route.

In addition to the clear wayfinding, there were many ÖBB staff on the platform to assist customers. I don't have a photo of that so here's a glamour shot of the train awaiting departure.

 

[roger1818]

I can (sort of) understand the need for controlled access to platforms in larger terminals, but making people stand in line is not appropriate and really impacts the user experience. VIA needs to see the opportunity especially in relation to the airport experience - which while dreadful at its worst, can actually be slicker at times.

From my experience, VIA hasn't ever "required" you to stand in the line (you could equally sit down somewhere and wait for the boarding announcement), it is just something people tend to do, and when others see the line they feel compelled to join the queue.

 

[Urban Sky]

Further to this point, here was my experience boarding the ÖBB Nightjet sleeper train at Wien Hauptbahnhof (Vienna Central station) last week.

The train was listed on the departure screens along with everything else (all the way down to local S-Bahn trains). The train was already at the platform when I arrived, as indicated by a white dot on the left side of the screen. The different ends of the train are split up during the night and head to different destinations, so the train is listed twice, with an A-B suffix on the platform number to send Amsterdam-bound passengers toward the appropriate end of the platform.
View attachment 353507

On the platform itself there are screens showing the layout of the train (and the following 3 trains on the same platform) This is particularly important in this case since the car numbers are not necessarily in numerical order due to getting rearranged en route.
View attachment 353508

In addition to the clear wayfinding, there were many ÖBB staff on the platform to assist customers. I don't have a photo of that so here's a glamour shot of the train awaiting departure.
View attachment 353509

Thank you for sharing this great European example of a passenger-centric rail hub, but I believe the most important difference between European rail hubs like Wien Hauptbahnhof and North American rail hubs like Toronto Union only becomes clear when you draw the attention at the width of the platforms and of the vertical access (stairs or escalators):

Source: 5TEF4Ns Blog

Source: Urban Toronto article by Robert Mackenzie


We can laugh all we want about the archaic boarding practices on which VIA insists, but they are a direct consequence of the severe historic underinvestment in rail infrastructure on this continent. If we want passenger-centric boarding processes like across Europe, we'll have to heavily invest into passenger-centric infrastructure first...

 

[kEiThZ]

....I believe the most important difference between European rail hubs like Wien Hauptbahnhof and North American rail hubs like Toronto Union only becomes clear when you draw the attention at the width of the platforms and of the vertical access (stairs or escalators):

We can laugh all we want about the archaic boarding practices on which VIA insists, but they are a direct consequence of the severe historic underinvestment in rail infrastructure on this continent. If we want passenger-centric boarding processes like across Europe, we'll have to heavily invest into passenger-centric infrastructure first...

Interesting point. Could Union work with fewer, but wider platforms?

 

[crs1026]

Interesting point. Could Union work with fewer, but wider platforms?

I had thought that was already about to happen, or is it only ML platforms that are being widened?

(the terminal that is perpetually under construction)

- Paul

 

[DirectionNorth]

I had thought that was already about to happen, or is it only ML platforms that are being widened?

(the terminal that is perpetually under construction)

- Paul

It's the shared VIA/GO platform, to my understanding. Metrolinx released a PR release here: https://blog.metrolinx.com/2021/05/06/torontos-union-station-slated-for-new-shared-platform/

 

[Bordercollie]

Interesting point. Could Union work with fewer, but wider platforms?

How long do VIA trains dwell at Union? Instead of killing time at the platform, could they move the train to a layover facility?
There are two passing tracks at the south end of the station, could they use one of those tracks to free up the platform?
Its not like there are that many freight trains that use those tracks on a daily basis.
Or allow VIA to share the Bathurst layover or east layover facilities?

 

[Urban Sky]

How long do VIA trains dwell at Union? Instead of killing time at the platform, could they move the train to a layover facility?
There are two passing tracks at the south end of the station, could they use one of those tracks to free up the platform?
Its not like there are that many freight trains that use those tracks on a daily basis.
Or allow VIA to share the Bathurst layover or east layover facilities?

Having VIA layover outside the station, but somewhere closer than Mimico, is certainly among the most obvious solutions for minimizing VIA's footprint, but the question is in the end whether the platform tracks or the station throat are the bigger chokepoints:

• Layover in station: Inbound=>Station=>Outbound is 2 movements (2 revenue, 0 non-revenue)
• Layover outside station (at GO facility nearby Union Station): Inbound=>Station=>Layover=>Station=>Outbound is 4 movements (2 revenue, 2 non-revenue)
• Layover on freight tracks: Inbound=>Station=>Station throat=>Layover=>Station throat=>Station=>Outbound is 6 movements (2 revenue, 4 non-revenue)

 

[Bordercollie]

Having VIA layover outside the station, but somewhere closer than Mimico is certainly among the most obvious solutions for minimizing VIA's footprint, but the question is in the end whether the platform tracks or the station throat are the bigger chokepoint:

• Layover in station: Inbound=>Station=>Outbound is 2 movements (2 revenue, 0 non-revenue)
• Layover outside station (at GO facility nearby Union Station): Inbound=>Station=>Layover=>Station=>Outbound is 4 movements (2 revenue, 2 non-revenue)
• Layover on freight tracks: Inbound=>Station=>Station throat=>Layover=>Station throat=>Station=>Outbound is 6 movements (2 revenue, 4 non-revenue)

Well I guess it depends on the layover time. If it's an hour during rush hour it might be better to de-train and then move the train to a layover facility.

In that time you can board two to three Go trains. The problem is to make sure that you don't have freezing of switches during storms.

 

[tsm1072]

Interesting point. Could Union work with fewer, but wider platforms?

How long do VIA trains dwell at Union? Instead of killing time at the platform, could they move the train to a layover facility?
There are two passing tracks at the south end of the station, could they use one of those tracks to free up the platform?
Its not like there are that many freight trains that use those tracks on a daily basis.
Or allow VIA to share the Bathurst layover or east layover facilities?

I believe the eventual plan involves wider platforms, and stub tracks to make layovers easier for VIA:
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...-projects-metrolinx-various.9023/post-1686071

 

[roger1818]

The planned Elevated Passenger Platforms for Ottawa Train Station will also widen them. Phase 1A (which only raised the platform adjacent to the station) is complete and I would hope that at least Phase 1B (which raises and widens the next platform) would be included as part of HFR.

 

[EnviroTO]

Their job description only requires them to lift 50 pounds.

You can get VIA staff to carry your bags for free? When did this happen? If they don't carry your bags their weighing and charging doesn't make sense. I would suspect the wages paid to weigh bags likely pays the difference in diesel fuel to transport them. I understand having a similar quantity of bags per passenger limit to the airlines before charging for it, or if ViA was providing check-in at part of a trip that includes a flight so people aren't surprised mid trip they are over the limits, but if you are under that limit of bags going Montreal to Toronto it makes no sense to me to weigh bags.

 

[roger1818]

You can get VIA staff to carry your bags for free? When did this happen? If they don't carry your bags their weighing and charging doesn't make sense. I would suspect the wages paid to weigh bags likely pays the difference in diesel fuel to transport them. I understand having a similar quantity of bags per passenger limit to the airlines before charging for it, or if ViA was providing check-in at part of a trip that includes a flight so people aren't surprised mid trip they are over the limits, but if you are under that limit of bags going Montreal to Toronto it makes no sense to me to weigh bags.

They will help you lift it into the train from the platform if needed. In the past at least, some stations had porters who will store your bags and carry them onto the train for you, but that is a paid service.