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VIA Rail

I could see VIA buying Stratford-London or even Kitchener-London and giving freight running rights as needed (it does this between Coteau QC and Ottawa already).

It's pretty likely, to be honest. I think that GEXR's lease comes up next year - that would be the perfect opportunity to make the purchase. VIA could then contract out the freight service back to GEXR, or whomever they choose.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
And no, car ownership really isn't relevant. Most Europeans own cars, maybe even more so than Canadians if you count motorcycles and scooters. Most people who take the train in any developed country own a car.

You missed my point completely. Europeans may own cars. But it's expensive to drive long distance. This is not the case in Canada. It's not just gas. There's fewer (or almost none) tolls in Canada. And parking charges in urban areas are a lot lower. This makes driving a whole lot cheaper. Aside from the fact that having a car at your destination is often more convenient than local transit.

Going on and on about driving being more expensive overall, misses the point completely.

I think you're missing the point. Via's modal share is very low and people don't flock to intercity transit because it hasn't been allowed to compete. Trains have seen very little investment and because of that they're slow, unreliable, and infrequent. The option for the masses to switch to transit simply doesn't exist. That's what Via is trying to change.

I'm not denying that VIA's uncompetitive now. I'm suggesting that the planned ridership might not materialize with better service if fares aren't adjusted.

UPX was extremely expensive by any standard and they ignored multiple reports that concluded fares should be lower.

A lesson, I've pointed out, should be considered for any of VIA's development plans. I've yet to see a VIA study on the fare sensitivity of potential passengers. Sure, they poll existing passengers. But that doesn't say a thing about attracting new ridership.

Like any transportation service, fares are constantly adjusted to maximize revenues and ridership. They're not going into uncharted territory here.

Sure. And I'm just hoping that said model leads to lower fares in the future. I would not want to see a multi-billion dollar investment in VIA imperiled because they think $100 fares are competitive because dumbass drivers dont' consider depreciation....
 
Jumping from Southwestern Ontario to Ottawa, I dug up some renderings and documents relating to Ottawa's proposed high-platforms from the NCC which I believe haven't been posted here before.

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VIA presentations to the NCC:
http://www.ncc-ccn.gc.ca/sites/default/files/pubs/e07.0_-_2016-p73e-via_rail.pdf
http://www.ncc-ccn.gc.ca/sites/default/files/pubs/e07.1_-_2016-p73e-via_rail_presentation.pdf
 
In digging to get more background on the London Free Press article claims, so far nothing, I'll dig deeper later, but to add to Paul's point on GEXR, I know the *Guelph* segment is leased until 2018, and GEXR picks up and drops off freight at the Alma St yard, where interchange with local companies to the north and Cambridge to the south happens. GEXR wouldn't be running that operation if it wasn't profitable, and ditto through K/W and west. CN need the short line operators to feed them freight, and they'd have to resume operations themselves if no-one leased it. TC wouldn't allow the sale of that line for passenger only. For continued running rights if sold? It would have to be part of the sale provisions.

From digging, here's what little I came up with, and it is worth a read, since it's already edited and linked:
Discussions underway between VIA and freight rail companies
February 25, 2016


inShare


By Paul Morden, Sarnia Observer

Talks aimed at expanding passenger train service in Sarnia are underway between Via Rail and the owner of the tracks it uses in southwestern Ontario.
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That comes as self-propelled rail cars have been spotted in recent days travelling on tracks around the region.

“Since our announcement last year of our desire to improve service in the region, Via has submitted a request to the track owner with respect to possible additional frequencies in 2016 on routes linking Sarnia and Windsor with London and Toronto,” Via Rail spokesperson Malcolm Andrews said in an e-mail.

“Discussions are ongoing with the railway owner.”

Andrews also confirmed that Via has been running tests with refurbished self-propelled rail diesel cars on tracks in southwestern Ontario, “in preparation for those possible new frequencies.”

Self-propelled passenger cars were photographed on the weekend running on tracks through Thamesville in Chatham-Kent.

Via Rail CEO Yves Desjardins-Siciliano said during a visit to Sarnia in June the passenger rail provider planned to increase service to the community, and the rest of the region.

Click here to read the full story.
Via tests passenger cars for proposed southern Ontario runs
CBC News

Dozens of additional passenger train runs should be operating in southern Ontario later this year as Via Rail Canada continues its push to increase the frequency of trips in and out of London, Ont.

Proponents of increased passenger rail service got a glimpse of the company’s expansion plans when Via tested a couple rebuilt diesel cars near Chatham.

Testing out the diesel cars sends a signal of Via’s progress, according to Terry Johnson, president of the Southwestern Ontario Transportation Alliance.

The alliance has been advocating for increased passenger service for years.

“What we hear when we talk to people about what they would like to see done to make passenger service more attractive to use, frequency is a big factor,” Johnson told CBC News.

Via Rail confirmed its plan to add dozens of trips in the region, including four extra round trips between Sarnia and London and several others trips out of Windsor.

Click here to read the full story.
See more at: http://ccrail.com/discussions-underway-between-via-and-freight-rail-companies/#sthash.997tnqDf.dpuf

Note the use of Budd Railcars! My first thought, beyond amazement was "dirty exhaust" and how that's going to be/has been addressed. Doubtless, it could be cleaned up a lot by adding scrubbers and tweaking combustion parameters. My second thought was "why haven't we heard about this prior?" Perhaps some posters have, but last I know of the railcars is that they were languishing at Mimico. Any posters able to add to this?
 
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-- U.S. Customs would board at Union and begin clearing after departure
All fine and good until the *cost* of doing that is taken into consideration. The US looks to recoup all costs of this sort from those using it, not from US taxpayers. You're viewing this from Canadian eyes, as much of the Cdn press tends to do on these matters (costs of bridges, let alone who pays for Customs/Immigration services). It's Canada promoting cross border travel and trade, not the US. This subject will remain problematic, and ex-Senator Clinton, even as a NY senator, was brutal on the issue. She's most likely the next US President.
 
GEXR wouldn't be running that operation if it wasn't profitable, and ditto through K/W and west. CN need the short line operators to feed them freight, and they'd have to resume operations themselves if no-one leased it. TC wouldn't allow the sale of that line for passenger only. For continued running rights if sold? It would have to be part of the sale provisions.

Dig harder.

Freight service is still provided on the VIA-owned Alexandria Sub (Coteau-Ottawa), particularly to reach the Ottawa Central operation to Arnprior and the Ottawa L'Original Railway, and on the ex-CP Brockville Sub. Local CN-operated freights operate on the Metrolinx owned Weston Sub through Malton and Etobicoke, the Oakville Sub between Mimico and Burlington, and the Newmarket and Uxbridge Subs, all owned by Metrolinx.

And of course Metrolinx owns the east half of the GEXR-leased railway from Silver to Kitchener, GEXR's busiest section.

So yeah. VIA can buy this track.
 
Dig harder.

Freight service is still provided on the VIA-owned Alexandria Sub (Coteau-Ottawa), particularly to reach the Ottawa Central operation to Arnprior and the Ottawa L'Original Railway, and on the ex-CP Brockville Sub. Local CN-operated freights operate on the Metrolinx owned Weston Sub through Malton and Etobicoke, the Oakville Sub between Mimico and Burlington, and the Newmarket and Uxbridge Subs, all owned by Metrolinx.

And of course Metrolinx owns the east half of the GEXR-leased railway from Silver to Kitchener, its busiest section.

So yeah. VIA can buy this track.

I had updated my post to add (gist) "terms of sale would have to include overhead or running freight rights". On the Silver to K/W stretch, GEXR are still blocking VIA from adding more service, even though it is VIA that paid for the new signalling on that stretch.

Edit to Add:
Article on the re-appearance of Budds in southern Ontario:
WATERLOO REGION — Via Rail is reaching 60 years into the past as it moves forward to restore lost service in Kitchener later this year. [...] Since February, the federal passenger service has been testing railcars built between 1955 and 1958 on southwest Ontario tracks, to ensure they work with modern signals. [...]
Via intends to deploy them to launch a third daily train between Toronto, Kitchener and areas west, pending negotiations with public and private track owners on the route.

This would restore service that Via axed in 2012 when Ontario's GO Transit commuter trains launched between Kitchener and Toronto.

"Via has submitted a request to the track owners with respect to possible additional frequencies in 2016," Via spokesperson Malcolm Andrews said. "Discussions are ongoing with the railway owners."

Andrews could not say when the new service will launch or provide a timetable. Via said last year that its new train would depart Kitchener for Toronto in the morning and leave Toronto for Kitchener in late afternoon. That's roughly in line with weekday GO trains that are also expanding this year.

Via trains are typically more comfortable and 28 minutes faster to Toronto because they stop less. But a one-way ticket costs up to $19 more than a GO fare.

"Via has no plan to significantly modify the fare structure, other than price adjustments in the ordinary course of business," Andrews said.
[...]
(Terence Johnson, president of the Southwestern Ontario Transportation Alliance) said refurbishing the railcars is a good idea to expand commuter rail in the short term, while Via lobbies the Liberal government for funding to renew its fleet.
http://www.therecord.com/news-story...s-on-old-trains-for-new-service-to-kitchener/
 
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C0ntext: Earlier topic of "On-the-fly" customs clearance on a moving train between Canada-USA necessitating technology and political improvements before it can happen...

It's Canada promoting cross border travel and trade, not the US. This subject will remain problematic, and ex-Senator Clinton, even as a NY senator, was brutal on the issue. She's most likely the next US President.
Granted, it's going to be difficult, but at some point in a decade, or two decades, or later this century. The difficulty of cross-border travel has waxed and waned over the decades.

The cost isn't that bad. Average 1000 people per day for the Toronto-NYC route paying a $5 fee (now faster than driving, even without raising rail speed limits), is $5000 per day. $2500 per day paid to U.S. customs for the cost of sending staff to Toronto, with the other $2500 for rest (paying off capital cost of initiative). That's a million dollars per year repayment. Or even bump to $10, and consider all borders -- that may be $5M per year, repaying a $50M capital. That's only the Toronto-NYC route, there are other routes that can benefit from this (Montreal, Vancouver). Some customs have already started using mobile clearance equipment at border crossings, and the very same equipment may also be usable on the train as well.

The capital cost of such a theoretical initiative is constantly falling thanks to simpler technology. Dash cameras can now be had for only 20 dollars off eBay, and cameras are literally a free part of a smartphone nowadays. The bluetooth barcode scanner that VIA uses, is also available on eBay for computer-accessory-like prices (about a hundred dollars). The technology glue is gradually becoming simpler. Yesterday, in the 1990s, the thought of seeing a World Map Atlas with millions of realtime traffic points and public transit routing (open data fees) -- was science fiction dreamland but is here (Google Maps) and is free for use by any car driver (Google Navigation) even driving past international borders. Today, even small towns now can afford to put up a website that handles stuff like speeding ticket payments -- pay directly from home in a town of less than 50,000 -- the cost of designing an ecommerce website has dramatically fallen thanks to off-the-shelf website components. Tiny mom-and-pop credit unions now support Interac Email Money Transfer, formerly an IT megaproject that only was done by the Big Five. The cost of doing the technology megaproject will eventually be doable this century.

Software is becoming more modular. We even observe websites such as www.ttc.ca running an embedded version of TransitApp. Government websites now embed YouTube videos (saves lots of money) and Google Maps (saves lots of money too). Social feeds now prevent governments from having to develop expensive discussion board software. Et cetra...

I've been working in information technology for more than 20 years. Programming, mobile apps, mapping stuff, websites, etc.

Government projects do somewhat raise costs given stricter requirements and bureuacracy, sometimes ending up in what appears to be ridiculous waste and cost-overruns to a highly newsworthy billion dollars. But many have actually been done on the relative cheap and still successfully, in the million league, or ten-million dollar league, some projects nearly as complex as the project I am suggesting, have been done and doable at well under $100M. Thanks to modules and reusable components that have now been standardized. Those successful few-million-dollar projects are the stuff that do not show up as scandals in the news.

Between all borders, to pay off this initiative, it is less than 10 trains needing to be equipped with on-the-go customs clearance, using off-the-shelf components. The off-the-shelf hardware cost is now relatively tiny, except for specialized hardware such as the door integrity seals which may end up even cheaper. One big issue is the cost of integrity verification. But there are even parts for that -- instead becoming smart doorway cameras not too dissimilar from existing WiFi home security camera products costing a couple hundred and quickly falling -- and ruggedized/secure versions exist too. If cheap and trustworthy enough in the future, smart wireless doorway camera at every train doorway could then instead double as the doorway integrity seal (and not just for audit). Failed/tampered cameras would just result in manual inspection as today, so they would need to be failsafe and reliable.

They might decide cameras are not needed, and use simpler integrity seals like security stickers or security locks. Then zero hardware needs to be installed on the trains. But even with camera (no wires, except for power wire which could come from the overhead train light for simpler installation), it is mostly IT/programming/securing cost rather than hardware cost.

Baggage scanning is a consideration although this is done on a much more lightweight basis than for air and I would hopefully expect that to continue without onerous mandatory airport-xray for everything. That would dramatically raise cost, but many solutions abound (random screen, full prescreen, border xray of checked baggage, future full-vehicle scanners like they're inventing for trucks and freight containers), mobile scanners exist (albiet still more limited than xrays) for on-the-go scanning, and future solutions may come up as well.

It may not be doable politically now, but at some point, politics becomes the only limiting factor -- not the cost and technology -- to achieve on-the-go customs clearance on a moving train -- 100% funded by train ticket surcharge repaying a mere 10 year loan.

What's simply needs to be proven is to make sure technology can make on-the-go clearance can actually provide more secure custom clearing than pre-clearance. Consider customs now has more time, as in 1.5 hours (Toronto-to-Niagara) with all passengers -- rather than having to quickly clear people.

Once that happens, that technology is trusted/secure enough -- then customs/politicians loves the idea, it becomes politically easier if on-the-go clearance is successfully made more secure than doing pre-clearance.
 
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Haven't had time to fully read this, but this paper addresses *pre-clearance* on trains:

EBTC Members are the Transportation Agencies of the U.S. States of Michigan, New York,
Vermont and Maine and the Canadian Provinces of Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova
Scotia, and Newfoundland & Labrador
(Honorary members are the Southeast Michigan
Council of Governments, the Greater Buffalo
-
Niagara Regional Transportation Council and the Regional Municipality of Niagara)
Improving and Expanding Cross Border Rail Passenger Service
through
the
Implementation of Pre
-
clearance
An EBTC White Paper
PURPOSE
:
This paper provides background and an overview of the issues associated
with pre
-
clearance for passenger rail
between the United States and Canada
, and the potential
benefits of expanding pre
-
clearance to international rail service that provides a direct
route from the border to a clearance facility. The Eastern Border Transp
ortation
Coalition (EBTC) strongly supports the Beyond the Border Action Plan’s call to establish
a pre
-
clearance agreement, and to expand the availability of pre
-
clearance where
appropriate.
[...continues at length...]
http://ebtc.info/wp-content/uploads...Cross-Border-Rail-Passenger-Service-Final.pdf

I think this is the way progress will be made, not checking en-route, which presents quite a number of difficulties, firearms included.
 
Note the use of Budd Railcars! My first thought, beyond amazement was "dirty exhaust" and how that's going to be/has been addressed. Doubtless, it could be cleaned up a lot by adding scrubbers and tweaking combustion parameters.

I'm originally from Sarnia so I have been watching this closely.

These Budd RDC's were originally from the Sudbury to White River run, which is slated to get actual loco and cars. They were pissed at first about losing their RDC's but they are happy to be getting an "actual" train up there instead.

The RDC's were completely refurbished top to botton, including new engines.

http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/capital-investment/project/rdc-fleet-rebuild

Those new engines are at least Teir 2 compliant. So no more dirty exhaust issues.
 
I'm originally from Sarnia so I have been watching this closely.

These Budd RDC's were originally from the Sudbury to White River run, which is slated to get actual loco and cars. They were pissed at first about losing their RDC's but they are happy to be getting an "actual" train up there instead.

The RDC's were completely refurbished top to botton, including new engines.

http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/capital-investment/project/rdc-fleet-rebuild

Those new engines are at least Teir 2 compliant. So no more dirty exhaust issues.
Rob: Many thanks. Googling is often hit or miss depending on having the right tag, and I kept looking, couldn't find what I knew must be there. But did find this amongst many other articles, an absolutely classic history on Canadian Budds:
http://www.exporail.org/can_rail/Canadian Rail_no491_2002.pdf

Those new engines are at least Teir 2 compliant.
Even better!
The trains will also feature fully-rebuilt diesel engines that meet Euro II emission standards and fully-rebuilt air brakes.
IIRC, that's almost Tier 3 here, I'll dig and correct if need be, but far better than Tier 2.

Many thanks! Just reading it now. This is important news not just as that pertains to these particular units...but that VIA is producing a marked change in policy. This sets a precedent in a number of ways, not the least how small a unit that a train crew can run *ostensibly* at break-even for cost on mainline routes. This has great implications for GO doing similar or same on RER.

Any other readers have more links? There's a very good engineering section in the pdf link I produced. The original engines were 2-stroke! No wonder they smoked so much....I wonder if they are related to the early GM buses?

Edit: Still very thirsty for engineering specs on these. VIA's page states: "The 480 horsepower engine".

Is that one of two, or are they leaving one truck un-powered? If it is both, that's almost double the power (ostensibly reflected in tractive effort proportionately, it is fluid drive) of the original units! There will be a bit more weight with the added sundries (HVAC, Hotel Power, compressor for air brakes, etc) but acceleration must be considerably better. With a lot of ancillaries taken off the prime mover(s), it will leave more tractive power...*and* allow turning the prime motor(s) off in station instead of idling, further improving the effective air quality.

More details here, including the engine type:
https://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/pdfs/About_VIA/BK 20100329 ENG - RDC Rebuild Backgrounder.pdf
 
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Completely! I'm still boggled as to how this 'came in under the radar', but that must be because the emphasis on these units was for far-flung regions, not supplementary mainline service. Still trying to find if both trucks are powered. The one engine unencumbered with secondary systems matches traction power of the originals when new. If they've doubled that...whoa...watch out. (Ostensibly one can be shut down at cruising speed) But then again, if not, it's a substantial weight savings. Either way, it's immense progress, and credit to VIA for doing this.

Metronlinx should take a cue for the Weston Corridor, at least until electrification...and as we've discussed prior, adding more Nippon Sharyos appears unwise.
 
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Completely! I'm still boggled as to how this 'came in under the radar'

I think we've know for about half a year about VIA planning on using refurbished RDCs on this corridor. Anyways, I am equally excited as you Steve. It will be great to see RDCs running in Ontario once more. I've never got the chance to see one operational. Here are some videos of RDCs testing earlier this winter in south-western Ontario.


 
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