smallspy
Senior Member
In their defense....
The people at the top at VIA aren't thinking about competing with air. They're thinking of competing with the car. That's where the real ridership gains can be made.
Dan
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VIA Rail
- Thread starter ehlow
- Start date
In their defense....
The people at the top at VIA aren't thinking about competing with air. They're thinking of competing with the car. That's where the real ridership gains can be made.
Dan
kEiThZ
Superstar
I'm not sure that even they are 100% on that. Some of their ads and marketing positioning is most certainly aimed at air travelers. And if amateurs like me can see the potential in HFR, I have zero doubt the strategic planners at VIA can see a lot more opportunity. If they can't, they should be fired....
micheal_can
Senior Member
Well, let's hope they have a great marketing strategy when HFR is complete. It would be a shame if they build it and not get the word out.
robmausser
Senior Member
I really expect the Toronto Island to be torn down after the pandemic. The liberals hate it and this could be their excuse to get rid of it.
Even with the UPX and REM, door to door VIA could easily compete with air travel, even by simply saying that its a single seat ride from downtown to downtown, without having to deal with TSA etc.
micheal_can
Senior Member
Where would Porter base their operations?
reaperexpress
Senior Member
I never marveled about anything. You said you couldn't name any intercity doubledeckers other than those in Switzerland, France and the U.S., so I helped you name some more.
If you had actually read the post, you would have seen that I agree with your position regarding doubledeckers on VIA's network. Portraying me as some kind of bilevel fanboy is doing little other than undermining your credibility.
The longest NS routes in the 2020 schedule are:
Intercity 900 Den Helder - Maastricht (301 km)
Intercity 2900 Enkhuizen - Maastricht (281 km)
Intercity 3900 Enkhuizen - Heerlen (278 km)
Intercity 700 Den Haag - Groningen (260 km)
Intercity 500 Rotterdam - Groningen (248 km)
The Amsterdam - Maastricht line is a combined segment of routes 900 and 2900, which continue north of Amsterdam to Den Helder and Enkhuizen, respectively. I don't know what the situation was in 2016, it's possible the lines didn't continue beyond Amsterdam at the time.
There are 36 intermediary stations between Amsterdam Centraal and Maastricht, and Intercity trains skip 29 of them:
(Amsterdam Centraal)
Amsterdam Muiderpoort
Amsterdam Amstel
Amsterdam Duivendrecht
Amsterdam Bijlmer Arena
Amsterdam Holendrecht
Abcoude
Breukelen
Maarssen
Utrecht Zuilen
Utrecht Centraal
Utrecht Vaardsche Rijn
Utrecht Lunetten
Houten
Houten Castellum
Culembourg
Geldermalsen
Zaltbommel
's Hertogenbosch
Vught
Boxtel
Best <- yes it also means the same thing in Dutch
Eindhoven Breukenlaan
Eindhoven Centraal
Geldrop
Heeze
Maarheeze
Weert
Roermond
Echt <- means "really" in Dutch
Susteren
Sittard
Geleen-Lutterade
Beek-Elsloo
Bunde
Maastricht Noord
(Maastricht)
The Intercity schedule you showed only shows Intercity stations. That particular line only has one Intercity stopping pattern, so that's why you don't see any skipped stations in the timetable.
A small number of Intercity Express services also share the line between Amsterdam Centraal and Utrecht Centraal, stopping at those two stations en route to Köln, Frankfurt and Basel. Customers with NS tickets can ride ICE services within the Netherlands by purchasing a €2.60 supplement.
The three stations that intercity trains serve between Amsterdam and Eindhoven are all major hubs in their own rights.
Amsterdam Amstel is a secondary hub in Amsterdam, which is the largest city in the country.
Utrecht Centraal is the busiest station in the country (busier than Toronto Union) and the central hub of the Dutch railway network. Utrecht is also the fourth-largest city in the country (larger than Eindhoven).
's Hertogenbosch is a relatively small city, but it is the capital of Noord Brabant province and is a hub for local trains in the area.
Absolutely correct. I suspect that the Amsterdam-Maastricht corridor is the busiest in the country, given the huge commuter flows between nearby cities (Amsterdam - Utrecht, Amsterdam - Den Bosch, Utrecht - Eindhoven, etc). Hence the use of 12-car bilevel trains during peak periods.
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robmausser
Senior Member
haha thats cute.
Porter is RIP even if the Island airport doesn't get demolished. They are so far in debt before this pandemic and the government has said they aren't bailing airlines out, I expect them to post Chapter 11 sometime in the near future.
The death of Porter is the catalyst to the Island airport closing to be honest.
micheal_can
Senior Member
I wouldn't be so sure. The government loves to bail out airlines. If only they took that money and invested it in Via, we would likely have HSR along the Corridor by now.
robmausser
Senior Member
kEiThZ
Superstar
Meh. A handful of downtown Liberals and Dippers dislike the airport. There's plenty of suburban Liberals that don't care or will oppose such a closure. Especially, if say the closure accelerates other airport development, like Pickering. And let's be clear, nobody really cares what downtown Liberals think because they aren't voting conservative anytime soon.
What is your math on "easily compete with air travel". I don't see it. Especially not with current travel times. Post HFR, only Toronto-Ottawa say 3:15 hrs would be somewhat competitive with air. At 4:45 hrs Toronto-Montreal wouldn't be close to competitive with air.
robmausser
Senior Member
The last time I took the plane to Montreal from Pearson, from Union to downtown Montreal took me 4.5 hours.
30ish minutes on the UPX
2 hours in Pearson, until take off (including taxing on the runway etc)
1.3h in the air.
45 minutes Trudeau airport, taxing, deplaning etc.
45 minutes, bus from airport to downtown.
However, it was a huge headache and pain in the ass. Having to transfer 3 times, including the headache that is airport security, etc.
So even if the REM would take off 20 minutes or so to get downtown, the fact that it would take only 30 minutes more on VIA but I can plop my butt in a much nicer seat, relax, and not have to worry about anything, plus save some money over air travel? I would pick the train every time.
However the reliability of HFR would have to be proven, that I could have a 95% chance that the train would show up on time. But that is one of the promises of HFR.
Imo they don't have to beat the plane in time, they have to be "just close enough" and more comfortable, less hectic (one seat ride) economical and reliable to be a viable alternative.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
I think weather has a big part in flying. A small snow storm even in a different area of the country can cause serious problems with air travel.
With trains, it's not as much as an issue.
With trains, it's not as much as an issue.
micheal_can
Senior Member
$1.2 billion in fiscal update for airports, airport infrastructure & regional airlines
I wonder what via could do with $1.2 billion.
Air Canada bailout buys time - but Canada Inc sells out to forces of protectionism
centreforaviation.com
Last week, the formerly government-owned Air Canada announced it had managed to pull back from the brink, securing just over CAD1 billion in loans, probably enough to secure its future for the next few months.
(This was in 2009)
So, what could Via have done with $1 billion in 2009?
So many people see their ticket times and don't take into account anything. Whether it be passing security, or getting to/from the airport, and then all the challenges with weather all add to the total travel time. TV show Top Gear, and later The Grand Tour have done races using flying, train and driving. In Europe, Driving never wins.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
Mind you that is a loan. They have to pay it back.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Ahhh, the influence of the US. Porter could only "post Chapter 11" if they were a US corporation. Nit pik over.