robmausser
Senior Member
I did not mean to intend you were advocating for it, just sharing my opinion.
If anything it sounded like you weren't in favour.
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VIA Rail
- Thread starter ehlow
- Start date
I did not mean to intend you were advocating for it, just sharing my opinion.
If anything it sounded like you weren't in favour.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Misunderstood you. I thought you were looking at HFR travel times for a second.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Here's the official presser:
www.newswire.ca
$71.1 million for two years of study (2019 & 2020). $55 million from the CIB. All to "complete the technical, financial and commercial analysis required for a final investment decision on High Frequency Rail in the Corridor." So best case scenario, the Liberals get elected and use this as a campaign promise for the 2023 election?
The Liberals had 4 years in power. They launch yet another study on the eve of an election. I can't even.....
For me personally, this is the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. They've lost my vote.
Government of Canada takes next steps to further explore VIA Rail's High Frequency Rail proposal in the Quebec City-Toronto Corridor
TROIS-RIVIÈRES, QC, June 25, 2019 /CNW/ - A modernized passenger rail system with a dedicated track would significantly improve the movement of people in...
www.newswire.ca
$71.1 million for two years of study (2019 & 2020). $55 million from the CIB. All to "complete the technical, financial and commercial analysis required for a final investment decision on High Frequency Rail in the Corridor." So best case scenario, the Liberals get elected and use this as a campaign promise for the 2023 election?
The Liberals had 4 years in power. They launch yet another study on the eve of an election. I can't even.....
For me personally, this is the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. They've lost my vote.
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nfitz
Superstar
So then does one support the NDP that have a history of panicking and not going big. Or the Tories that have a history of killing VIA Rail services ... and now killing high-speed in Ontario.
raptor
Senior Member
the liberals weren't serious about high speed rail in Ontario, so there was nothing to kill really.
kEiThZ
Superstar
The Conservatives didn't kill VIA the last time around. And won't the next time around. Despite all the fear-mongering, they funded the Kingston sub project. If I wanted to vote for a government that did nothing on VIA I would have voted Conservative. Instead, I voted Liberal, got a government that ran up hundred billion dollars in new debt, without spending most of it on infrastructure, and in all those billions couldn't find $70 million to even fund a proper study until the eve of election? Screw them and their political games.
I am seriously considering voting Conservative this election. After voting, and donating to both the LPC and local Liberal riding last election. I am sick of them spending billions and not hitting one of the few priorities that I personally have. A hard commitment on HFR would have won my vote. I'm out.
ps. My other big disappointment is the CIB. Fantastic concept. The execution could not have been worse.....
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nfitz
Superstar
What? How do you figure that, outside of Windsor-Quebec City? Compare the final VIA (October 2005) schedule from 2005 before Harper was elected, to the final (October 2015) schedule just before he was defeated. Cuts include:
- Montreal-Halifax reduced from 6 trains a week to 3 trains a week
- Only one train a day to Sarnia instead of two
- Two Kitchener trains a day instead of three
- One Niagara Falls train a day instead of two
- Two trains a week from Winnipeg to The Pas instead of three
- Vancouver Island train eliminated
Fool me once ... okay, but fool me 5 times?
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p_xavier
Active Member
I've worked ten years in the federal government and the mentality was the public servants work for the government and not the people. I'm definitely not surprised what I'm seeing here.with the BIC, it's just an extension of that mentality.
ShonTron
Moderator
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robmausser
Senior Member
Are we talking about the federal or provincial liberals now? Im confused.
nfitz
Superstar
Provincial. I don't recall the federal Liberals ever promising high-speed rail anywhere - I don't think they've even studied it this decade.
crs1026
Superstar
^The bureaucracy has done more to stifle VIA than either political party. Mostly the pols just squeezed VIA’s subsidy and left it to VIA to figure out what remained affordable.
I have been told this story by VIA employees more than once, and figured it was an urban legend - until I witnessed this for myself last week. There is a siding just west of Ottawa where VIA regularly stages meets. It happens that this siding is close to the home of a senior and virulently anti-VIA bureaucrat. This guy objected to VIA trains sitting in the siding for the few minutes a day it takes to conduct these meets. (Is an idling train really that noisy or noxious???) He complained so loudly - and in the right places in the halls of power - that VIA now holds its incoming trains on the mainline a little ways down the track from the siding. Only when the second-arriving train is in sight will the first-arriving train creep up and occupy the siding. This costs VIA a couple of minutes of running time, because the second-arriving train approaches slowly on restrictive signals, whereas if the meet went down in the normal manner, the first train would clear the main line early enough for the second train to blast through at full speed on green signals.
This kind of sniping from the bushes is what holds VIA back. The pols would probably support VIA if the bureaucrats weren’t raising a million objections and potential “concerns” that make the pols think the voters might not approve.
The last round of studies were supposed to lead to a decision on HFR.... by 2017. What commercial bank would invest $71M to merely study a proposal? I have to agree that this kind of make-work project is worse than just coming out and saying “no”. There are lots of things that the country could do with that money.
And if it turns out that this study work ends up in the hands of Liberal-friendly consultants, then I might as well vote for Doug Ford. They are all the same, regardless of Party affiliation.
- Paul
I have been told this story by VIA employees more than once, and figured it was an urban legend - until I witnessed this for myself last week. There is a siding just west of Ottawa where VIA regularly stages meets. It happens that this siding is close to the home of a senior and virulently anti-VIA bureaucrat. This guy objected to VIA trains sitting in the siding for the few minutes a day it takes to conduct these meets. (Is an idling train really that noisy or noxious???) He complained so loudly - and in the right places in the halls of power - that VIA now holds its incoming trains on the mainline a little ways down the track from the siding. Only when the second-arriving train is in sight will the first-arriving train creep up and occupy the siding. This costs VIA a couple of minutes of running time, because the second-arriving train approaches slowly on restrictive signals, whereas if the meet went down in the normal manner, the first train would clear the main line early enough for the second train to blast through at full speed on green signals.
This kind of sniping from the bushes is what holds VIA back. The pols would probably support VIA if the bureaucrats weren’t raising a million objections and potential “concerns” that make the pols think the voters might not approve.
The last round of studies were supposed to lead to a decision on HFR.... by 2017. What commercial bank would invest $71M to merely study a proposal? I have to agree that this kind of make-work project is worse than just coming out and saying “no”. There are lots of things that the country could do with that money.
And if it turns out that this study work ends up in the hands of Liberal-friendly consultants, then I might as well vote for Doug Ford. They are all the same, regardless of Party affiliation.
- Paul
lrt's friend
Active Member
Frankly, what has been proposed is a necessary step. We need EA's to develop a proper proposal and a reasonable estimate of costs. So many times, we have seen major government projects go completely off track because there was not proper studies or advice has been ignored for political reasons. Anybody hear of Phoenix? This will also ensure that the project is refined for the benefit of investors and the public. Route diversions may be determined at this stage, which will increase the speed of service.
Sure, I am very impatient too about this project, but I also want it done the best way possible.
The best way to guarantee HFR will never be built is to vote Conservative. I have already heard their first campaign ad, which talks about Liberal waste and how their solution is more tax cuts. Shrinking the tax base is not the answer towards improving our infrastructure. Liberal waste and tax cuts are totally separate issues. If we can't afford existing projects and programs, how can we afford tax cuts? It is about pandering to our basic desires to pay less for everything.
kEiThZ
Superstar
All while VIA started consuming more and more in subsidies. The fundamental problem is this. VIA cannot change its business model without large amounts of capital to change Corridor services. And VIA cannot do that without a supportive government in power. With the Conservatives, I know what I get on this file. They'll keep status quo on VIA. The Liberals made a big show of needing to run "small deficits" to fund large amounts of infrastructure. Then ran large deficits to fund social programs instead and have basically done pretty much close to what the Conservatives would have on infrastructure. All their large promises on infrastructure were beyond this term and caveated on the infrastructure bank leveraging large amounts of private and institutional capital. I personally feel like this is strikingly similar to the bait and switch on electoral reform. And confirm to me that the Trudeau Liberals are not even close to sincere about infrastructure.
I don't want to vote for a government that will run another hundred billion dollar deficit without most of it going to infrastructure. That will end up in huge cuts a decade down the road and even less investment in infrastructure. Others may see it differently. But this is where I stand. I can't vote for yet another study.
And apparently I can't vote Liberal to improve national rail service either.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Right. Which is why they should not have waited until months before an election to even start studying the idea. Nothing says "government priority" like a pre-election announcement right?
This study isn't even an EA. This is a study to help make a decision. The EA comes after. So there will no shovels in the ground next term either.
The best way possible is to actually commit to building it and launching routing studies in conjunction with their EAs and everything else. This is a purposeful attempt at looking like they care about rail after not doing anything beyond the bare minimum for four years. Over their 4 years in power, this government will have spent $1.2 trillion at least. They couldn't find $71 million to launch this study in 2017?
At least, if I vote Conservative I won't get a government racking up another hundred billion in debt which only enables future governments to claim that we can't "afford" infrastructure spending.
If they aren't going to improve infrastructure, I'd like my money back. Simple as that. I have no issues paying more in taxes for building what is needed. But I take issue with promising to build infrastructure and then spending most of your deficits on new social programs.
This is exactly what I told the last Liberal fundraiser who called me to ask for the same donation as last time. I don't like being duped and then being fed vague fear-mongering for my vote and donation. Do what you promised to do and you'll win my support.