VIA Rail

[SaugeenJunction]

Ontario's fall budget statement did devote a paragraph to High Speed Rail. They only said they were continuing to study - but - considering how vague they were about many other things, the fact that this item even made it to the budget statement is interesting. Doesn't mean they are in the game, but it's a far cry from deep-sixing the whole idea. For a government that has been blunt in other areas, this is somewhat mellow.

- Paul

I think it's a multi-part show in terms of them cancelling HSR.
1) They do further study, and conclude that a new RoW between Kitchener isn't feasible due to expropriating farmer's land (lots of angry people currently)
2) They relegate it to the existing RoW via Stratford
3) They bring VIA on board who will be the operator (or VIA convinces the province to use them)
4) It becomes HFR phase 2, running to Windsor every hour at 177 km/h. People save time and have more frequent trains in London, and local stops in PC ridings like Strathroy, St. Mary's, and Stratford
5) VIA Trains on this corridor are labeled "VIA Ontario" similar to "Amtrak California"

 

[kEiThZ]

YDS is still talking about how VIA needs a private finance partner. That’s terrible.

I am pissed the Liberals aren’t taking this seriously. If they are still fishing for partners, it seems to me they are having trouble selling it to the private sector. Cause I’d think one of the big guys, like pension funds, Blackrock, Cerberus, etc. would jump in, if the case was good enough. Heck, they’d even help speed up the business case and approval.

 

[micheal_can]

Could they simply build an elevated guideway down the 401? Seriously, would that work to get the ROW in place and not piss off too many people?

 

[SaugeenJunction]

YDS is still talking about how VIA needs a private finance partner. That’s terrible.

I am pissed the Liberals aren’t taking this seriously. If they are still fishing for partners, it seems to me they are having trouble selling it to the private sector. Cause I’d think one of the big guys, like pension funds, Blackrock, Cerberus, etc. would jump in, if the case was good enough. Heck, they’d even help speed up the business case and approval.

I think he was referring to phase 2 of the project re: private capital:

He believed that some private sector funding would be needed to complete the second phase between London and Windsor. ‘Canada is attractive to institutional investors because of its economic health and geopolitical stability. Canadian pension funds have already invested in rail infrastructure projects around the world.

And for phase 1 of HFR, we will hopefully hear something in the next few months.

 

[M636RF]

Could they simply build an elevated guideway down the 401? Seriously, would that work to get the ROW in place and not piss off too many people?

An elevated guideway would drastically increase the construction costs, and cause years of congestion on the 401 due to construction. Now, if they built an ROW beside the highway, then what you're suggesting might be more realistic.

 

[drum118]

An elevated guideway would drastically increase the construction costs, and cause years of congestion on the 401 due to construction. Now, if they built an ROW beside the highway, then what you're suggesting might be more realistic.

And how do you do that when there is no room, off/on ramps, overpasses, transmission lines, wind farms and so on???

Even building an elevated line down the centre of the 401 will be a rollercoaster line, with up and down over the overpass unless the elevated section is flat base on the highest overpass the line will have to go over. Doing that, what happens at airports where the flight path cross the 401??? Then there are the various hills and valleys.

 

[crs1026]

I think it's a multi-part show in terms of them cancelling HSR.
1) They do further study, and conclude that a new RoW between Kitchener isn't feasible due to expropriating farmer's land (lots of angry people currently)
2) They relegate it to the existing RoW via Stratford
3) They bring VIA on board who will be the operator (or VIA convinces the province to use them)
4) It becomes HFR phase 2, running to Windsor every hour at 177 km/h. People save time and have more frequent trains in London, and local stops in PC ridings like Strathroy, St. Mary's, and Stratford
5) VIA Trains on this corridor are labeled "VIA Ontario" similar to "Amtrak California"

Far too practical an idea.

Seriously - this is exactly what’s needed.

- Paul

 

[Urban Sky]

Flashback to ~2005. They had it all figured out.

This Airport link was actually part of the VIA Fast proposal (p.30):

 

[mdrejhon]

Could they simply build an elevated guideway down the 401? Seriously, would that work to get the ROW in place and not piss off too many people?

Given the complexities of construction techniques that keeps traffic flowing, and needing to build this so high above interchanges, and keeping the grade to less than 2 degrees for trains, I think it would be cheaper to build a viaduct above farmland, and let farmers keep farming under the HSR.

(But, our land is flat, so people begin asking why fo we need a viaduct in the first place)

 

[MisterF]

The simple answer is there is no need for a viaduct. It would needlessly make the construction cost of a new rail line skyrocket, essentially being a several hundred kilometre long bridge. Better to just stick with conventional construction methods. No need for ridiculous fanciful ideas.

 

[M636RF]

And how do you do that when there is no room, off/on ramps, overpasses, transmission lines, wind farms and so on???

Even building an elevated line down the centre of the 401 will be a rollercoaster line, with up and down over the overpass unless the elevated section is flat base on the highest overpass the line will have to go over. Doing that, what happens at airports where the flight path cross the 401??? Then there are the various hills and valleys.

I completely understand. I was just saying that IF they wanted to build it in close proximity to a highway (which I don't think they want to do, and for good reason), then it would be more economical to put it off to the side (which still isn't the greatest option, especially in the GTA). In reality, the best option is building it through undeveloped areas between major cities, where there is lots of space and land available.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

So I posted this on the HSR thread but I think it also applies here. The video is a basic summary of China's HSR network and why they are so good at building a network from scratch. Now before anyone starts throwing in comments about political systems, I do want to say that one should watch the video and be open minded about what is being presented; it really highlights some important factors about construction but also the vision of where a country should be in the future (aka long term thinking). The answer is at the ends of video and really talks about our overall situation and attitude.

*political will*

 

[SaugeenJunction]

From Quebecois media:

Encore loin d’un train à grande fréquence à Trois-Rivières

Not much new, but it is clear that this project gets more media coverage in Quebec than in Ontario. Marc Garneau says that he likes the project, and would take the new train from Ottawa to Montreal himself. Garneau does esentially say that he wants the project to happen as soon as possible, but that VIA/the Federal government must do its homework first. He emphasized that some private capital is also needed, and a $4-$5 billion price tag was mentioned.

The comments are from a forum on rail travel hosted by l'Union des municipalités du Québec (I assume it is similar to AMO in Ontario). YDS also emphasized that HFR would eliminate the $150 million annual corridor operating cost. Quebec municipalities also said that they want the project committed to by the Feds before the Federal Election, and not just as an election promise.

Lol at the old LRCs used in the video.

 

[micheal_can]

So I posted this on the HSR thread but I think it also applies here. The video is a basic summary of China's HSR network and why they are so good at building a network from scratch. Now before anyone starts throwing in comments about political systems, I do want to say that one should watch the video and be open minded about what is being presented; it really highlights some important factors about construction but also the vision of where a country should be in the future (aka long term thinking). The answer is at the ends of video and really talks about our overall situation and attitude.

*political will*

Basically what I got from it is:

1) political will to prevent separation movements from gaining ground.

2) building through cheap rural land

3) Assembly line everything.

 

[crs1026]

Case study:

I had heard that upon taking the Stratford line back from GEXR, CN and ML had imposed new slow orders this week. I kept my eye on VIA's moving maps this evening, watching trains 87/88 . It was an interesting, if horrifying, way to spend a Friday evening.

This evening, VIA 88 was held at London due to a late running connection from Windsor-Toronto train 78. It departed London 20 minutes late, at 20:11.

No 87, which had run on time to Kitchener, lost 40 minutes off the schedule between Kitchener and Stratford. It departed Stratford at 20:33.

There is only one place where trains can meet between Stratford and London, ie Kellys siding. With no alternative meeting points, 88 had to wait in the siding at Kellys for 23 minutes for 87. No 88 reached Stratford at 21:47 - 44 minutes late.

I observed by watching VIA's moving maps that the maximum speed for both 87 and 88 between Stratford and London was 66 km/hr. More typically, they ran at 58-64 km/hr. In spite of this, No 87 made up time by London, arriving at 21:37... only 28 minutes late.

No 87's travel time for the 32.8 miles between Stratford and London was 1:04, or 49.2 km/hr. No 88 took 1:38 to cover that distance, an overall velocity of 31.7 km/hr.

East of Stratford, speeds improve for a stretch, but there is now a 10-15 mph slow order between the Highway 8 bridge and Baden. East of Baden, the limit goes up....to 50 km/hr. East of CR 12, it's 60 km/hr for a bit and then 40-50 km/hr the rest of the way to Kitchener. Upon reaching the "dividing line" between CN and GO operations, a bit west of the Kitchener depot, 88 also was stopped for six minutes waiting for permission to proceed. 88 took 78 minutes to cover 25.9 miles from Stratford to Kitchener - an average velocity of 31.9 km/hr.

Those are speeds that cyclists can manage!

It's no secret that GEXR left the line in terrible shape. There were CN workers visible all along the line this week, so improvements will hopefully ensue. Never mind that this line doesn't even have proper passing sidings at reasonable intervals. My point is, when a line can deteriorate to this extent, and VIA can't do anything to prevent that from happening, or secure regulatory intervention, we are really living by third world standards.

- Paul